Bigthink - Idea Comments Feed

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:05:50 +0100

Jeff
What logic has brought you to belive that this is the truth. The onlly thing i see is intuition. Now im not much for intuition, everyone has intuition that turns them in countless directions, and my intuition pulls me in 100 diferent ways. So i put little value in intuition.

However good logic is something that holds some sway with me. So i wold like to hear the logical argument for your views.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:00:00 +0100

Nobody wants to believe that I know. But my intuition has combined with logic to form my belief that several of those channeled answers are right, but of course the second that you stop questioning those sources they can say whatever they want and you will follow them blindly like sheep.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:56:15 +0100

My sources are extra-terrestrial beings far beyond our level of spiritual and physical understanding of the universe sources that are channeled through a narrow wave in to the mind of a channeler. You may have heard of Edgar Cayce, he is the most popular of these channelers, he had the education of an 8th grader and in a trance state he could analyze a person's body find what was wrong with it and tell them a cure. He did that 14,000 times through 43 years, not one of his diagnoses were medically wrong. Some of his predictions about the physical future were wrong but predicting the future of a day many years in the future, several million different variations can happen and the prediction wont even be an option.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:42:45 +0100

jeff, while i usually agree on what you comment and to be honest i might believe that we may go on to learn and experience more, but sources? unless the guy who told you was a zombie who was at a cocktail party with jesus and came back to tell you about it. i'd have to say that source may not be 100% but as per our current discussion, i guess we can't ever gain this abosolute certainty.

now while we rely on our senses to obtain the information that existence gives us, we rely on others to confirm our experiences, and it is this confirmation that creates the idea of objectivity, an idea that may not be able to be confirmed itself for everyone brings their particular point of view to the conversation, but it is the very conversation that creates our ability to realize this objective potential.

what is piety, justice, the good, beauty, love?

while we may not be able to find a semantic definition for any of these things but, that in itself does not take away for the had experiences shared by most.

i know i have a body because i experience my body as well as experience FROM my body. when you look at yourself in the mirror you know that you are looking at you. when another person enters a room, you think that the person you sees the same you that you see but given we can't see life from their view that we can never know that. (which is why people get self concious)

What do they think of me? I know what I think of me, but I don't know what you think of me unless you tell me. Which brings us back to the begining, you existence helps me secure my existence, but since i can't actually prove you exist i guess i dont exist either.

none of this is real

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:59:21 +0100

Yes that is a good definition of the spirit. It is all just guesses after the vehicle of the spirit ceases to be. I'm not saying that it is the absolute truth but I have learned from sources that the spirit just goes on to live other lives and gain more knowledge, or it can be like the spirit of Jesus and Buddha and can exist in an entirely different realm and answer calls made to it by us earth-bound beings. I know it's not a proven fact, but hey it sounds good to me for reasons unknown other than my own intuition.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:03:41 +0100

It's simply too esoteric a game to play S44... more circular than not? can we even agree on what a circle is here?

DGallo... can we at least posit that as subjectivity is all relative... maybe there is a relative collective objectivity?

so when I pass S44 that coffee cup, he reasonably expects the cup to be hot and the coffee in it to taste something like coffee, etc....

This is why I could never pass for an academic!

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:41:05 +0100

No determening objective reality is imposible. There is no criteria. And for that matter i cant even objectiveley beyond all doubt prove to myself that you all exist, hence even if there was criteria it would be void.

Yes we can, and i think should make realistic assumptions. I ealistically assume that the people around me are real. I realistically assume that the coffe cup i am holing will not disintegrate in my hand. I make the reasonable assumption that the coin i tossed up will fall.

Assumption creates knoledge. Probability is simplly unknown number of causes. But i think what you are refering to is Baynsian probability, which is basically just degree of belief.

since we are now in the grander scale of phylosophy, rather then in the more practical realm of physics and biology. I will simplly ask you what makes you think you have a body.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:02:01 +0100

That's how I see it from my point of view.
Peace and Love

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:59:19 +0100

I think our subjective point of view makes objectivity impossible. In the sense that S44, is using.
Every snowflake and every fingerprint is unique, but only when examined under a microscope.
So even though every humans perspective is subjective, akin to a snowflake, it still just frozen water falling from the sky.
My advice is don't get lost in the details.

As far as what consumes the reality we find ourselves in: life.
JD, this is where I think you are getting lost in the details. The spirit is the spark that ignites the fire of life within a physical being. It drives it until that particular physical being ceases to be. After that it's all just guesses.
It is the life in our physical being, which I sometimes refer to as spirit, that allows us the opportunity to perceive.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:55:15 +0100

To the usual intellectual fellows...

I pose some follow ups...

Does our subjectivity make objectivity impossible? If not what is the criteria to be able to agree apon certain truths?

Our in ability to reach absolute certainty doesn't prohibit us from making real world and probable conclusions.

Is it probability that generates knowledge? I'd like to think that it is a bit more.

But again, I venture off topic somewhat so I will only ask one more....

What is it that consumes the reality that we find ourselves in together (individually)? What in our meat (aka body) allows us to perceive at all?

Thanks again

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:49:27 +0100

musycks we are both humans, we both have the same physical body, so of course a lot of physical things will look the same to us both. Unfortunately we are both seeing the same exact illusion with the same amount of brain capacity so therefore by comparing the two minds and the two bodies we can fool ourselves in to living in a world where we think we are always right if we agree on something physical.

There I think I've found the difference between the mind and the spirit.

The spirit is our true self, kind of heard by yourself and helps you explain a lot of things, not very evolved yet but lightyears ahead of animals spirits.

The mind is the body as well as it is the spirit, it is the medium in this imperfect world that we live on. It is limited by the imperfect physical body therefore making the mind imperfect as well, but it is the only way we can communicate to our fellow man because our spirits can't communicate to others, only ourselves. This is why people meditate, to seperate the mind, body, and spirit and investigate deeper in to the spirit.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:19:39 +0100

S44 it's a poetic way to say alone together, but that's what it means.

and by your defintion of everything being perception, then we might as well all stop trying to agree that anything is a collective 'reality'.. life would be infinitely more boring if we did.

Are you saying we can have no common reference points? no communal constants?
Are you even living in the same world I am?

you're messin' with my mind man!...

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:18:50 +0100

you mean we are alone togather?

D Galo
We analyze what our perception tells us about existance, and if we can deduce the kinds of light frequencies the dogs eye picks up then we can tell wha he sees sure. Same as we can easilly tell what another persons eye picks up. But the thing is all these analissies are done under the assumption that all, or most of what we perceive in our phisical univers is real. But fundamentally again tere is no way we can now anything to the point that other entities exist because we are always bound by the limited lense of perception and can not outside of it to get an objective look.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:36:54 +0100

we are alone... but we are together alone.
(thanks Crowded House)

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:02:32 +0100

I go to sleep. I go to work. And look at all the great shit I miss.

I never cared if reality was objective or subjective. Well, I don't care now. Perception is reality.

As individual as finger prints and snow flakes.

I don't care if the blue I see is not same blue you see. What does it matter?

If you see things most others can't see, it doesn't make you wrong, it just makes you separate.
We tend to feel comfortable gathering together. At times we follow the lead of others and join a group, and at other times, we persuade others to follow us and make our group larger.

Could we agree that we are a group of individuals?

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:22:06 +0100

D Gallo, Thanks! I enjoyed reading that.

I agree with you, we all find our own place to dwell, so as long as it brings you peace of mind, and doesn't harm others, no one else needs to understand or embrace it. That should be what matters.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:34:28 +0100

WOW! Little did I know that we'd all actualyl start a dialouge that hasen't ended in namecalling and personal attacks.

So thank you all for the great thoughts and responses. There is a lot for me to cover, and I'm sure I won't hit it all, but I'll cover a few...

As infinitly complex creatures, who tend to think that we know whats going on around here have led us to ask questions about both ourselves and "here". Primarily what are we and where did we come from. Answer, everyone has an idea (i.e. their own or one passed down to them) but nobody can know. Absolute certainty is impossible (in my opinion) on earth. Maybe afterwards, but again. Who knows?

As far as objective reality is concerned, we take what we are given, in that we are told what things are and what they do. It seems that we semmanticly attach identity to the various combinations of things we find, so that we can mutually identify and reidentify things and tell others what we have "learned". Being the social creatures that we are, we try and SHARE the experience for others experiencing experiences too! We do analyze the patterns we see using a logic (which is in many ways flawed but seems to get the job done) to better explain to ourselves and eachother what is happening what has happened and what WILL happen. One guy a long time ago learned the hard way that we can't kill a bear to easily with our hands. So after some others guys saw their friend get terribly mauled, they figured we might want to throw some sh*t at the bear if we too don't want to get mauled.

But the fact is, WE DO EXPERIENCE THINGS TOGETHER. Ever been at a ballgame during the national antheim and get the chills from the collective effervesence. It is almost impossible to escape our connections with the real world and the others that inhabit it. If everyone here can agree that every person derserves to be free and live his or her life as they see fit, then we can all put an intrinsic value on human life itself and therefore have to agree on some kind of collective truth i.e objective reality. THIS ISN"T TO SAY MY BLUE IS YOUR BLUE, and to that effect we can never know unless we get to experience life in your eyes. They tell me a dog sees in black and white! Did Spot tell you that? NO, but based on the things we know of how our eyes work we deduce some reasonable conclusions. I mean people have gotten pretty good at guessing. "Don't touch that you are going to burn yourself" I'd take your word for it but we all know that we touched the stove "just to see".

We all have an identity. All have memories (unless you have that disease that you forget every 15 seconds) and we all have futures that we are yet to uncover. It is facts like these coupled with my self-awareness and personal conflict in which I base my descision on having a soul. We all identify the things in life we call "feelings" "emotions" and "experiences" but to describe them to those around us becomes more difficult. Please describe the color green to a blind person and see how far that gets you.

Out of body experiences, tripping balls, and dejavu all go in the same category as dreams for me. Things that make me "see god". or better yet more easily identify the patterns we see and frame them differently than we are used to.

So, I don't really know if i covered anything here I feel like im in the same place i started but i do know.

I was hurled into this "reality"
There are others who tell me they see the same kind of crazy sh*t I do (minus the tripping balls)
I AM who I am.
You are who you are.
And we are all going to die. and probably not experience the world in the same way that we are experiencing it now.

thank you for the responses, we should all get a beer a shot and a joint and just CHILL.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:56:53 +0100

As out of body as you can get. Huge! Middle of the day, no factors at play. Took me a year to quit shaking. It's taken me years to really talk about it, or type I guess. Had others too. I'll put it like this, I'm blown away.

Dreams? Yes.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 21:37:14 +0100

Every living thing is fascinating, but I thought your views and opinions on life are fascinating as well, my brother is an atheist but he doesn't go much in to talking about it with me. So if you would take me and my brother as an example, a family of 4 that never really went to church, the elder son turns out atheist and the younger son turns out a "pantheist" (I'll just say I'm a pantheist to make things easy, please know that my beliefs are much much more complex than pantheism though). That just goes to show you that Monotheism is something handed down I would say, nobody would really pick up monotheism out of the blue I don't think.

Comment on: What is the soul? and if it's not there. How can lumps of meat connect?

Bigthink — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:22:45 +0100

Bryan, Pretty fly for a white guy!

Did you have an out-of-body experience? I have experienced what I would call "astral projection", sense of flying or floating at low altitude, and I was in my early twenties as well. There might have been other factors at play, though!

Dreams?...