Bigthink - Idea Comments Feed

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Thu, 22 May 2008 06:05:09 +0100

I agree ss... I have many problems with the Catholic Church... just ask my hometown priest...

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Wed, 21 May 2008 18:05:26 +0100

The valid point is that the vatican operates above the law, how holy is that bullshit?

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Wed, 21 May 2008 13:30:40 +0100

a bit extreme, but he touches (no pun intended) on some good points. its all been said before though...

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 21:23:54 +0100

pokoj, btw, did you catch what Bill Maher said about the pope on his show "Real Time"?

Ranks right up there with Sinead O'Connor!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 19:44:40 +0100

Jesse I missed your smiling face and crazy glazzeys... don't put us too far on the backburners! There is still much to be learned and argued and taught!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 19:41:49 +0100

Well I don't think that the Pope is to the point where he could convince everyone to drink his electric cool-aid and force it to their children, but as far as holding peoples minds in chains, Catholicism is up there with pentacostals...

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 13:07:23 +0100

well you guys have been patying without me:(
ive been out studying, both bible and college! sorry i havent had time to chat, i just have been more and more convinced that i need to focus on less arguing and debating with people about unfruitful subject, no worries though i will be back with a special emphasis on prophecy in the bible and the concept of hell in the past few generations as opposed to the original greek and hebrew that it was translated from. I'd suggest for you guys still running around for information that youtube has a good forum of information on christianity (both the crazy fundies and the normalest people you will ever meet) well i ll be checking around for places where i can make quick comments but you guys have fun!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:30:02 +0100

Haha those crazy preachers. I think I remember hearing about that one now, it kind of reminds me of the Branch Davidians in Waco.

You know the only difference between those leaders and the Pope is that the Pope actually has 1 billion people to convince so they wont get pressured by outside influences as easily.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:08:18 +0100

JD while you are here I'd like to answer your question about Jim Jones (I forgot what topic it was on)

I'm amazed you don't recognise the name, but I'm sure you'll know the story. He was a minister who started his own cult following which degraded into a sort of uber-fundamental/extremist sect and then further into a brainwashing cult (that had to move to Africa) and subsequently ended with a mass suicide. Known as the People's Temple. Jim Jones at the end often referred to himself as God and more pertinent than the "Sky God of the Bible". That is why I cautioned you against the use of the term "Sky God" because some might recognise it and make some rather nasty connections...

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:03:36 +0100

"pokoj, It's all in your head. Wishful thinking can cause profound sensations."

So you continue to say... do you not think I considered this? There was not a point in time that I could not continue on without belief in God. Nothing pulled me to that belief out of my own desire to believe... I would rather not believe, it would be much easier (Now you make me have to apologise to God again...)

"By now, you and I both know there's no sense in thinking we'll get together on this one."

I know, but that doesn't mean I won't defend myself against your accusations that I can't control my subconcious, or at least reconise when it is interfereing...

"I don't understand why the catholics wouldn't want a "hair of the dog" available after the usual weekend imbibement. Let's blame that one on the religious anti-booze pricks of the 20th century. "

Its the whole "pleasure is sin in any form" doctrine... And its always easier for me to blame the Catholics... I'm sorry I know this is wrong there are plenty of people within the Catholic church that are just as open as the Christians I consider my like-minded spiritualists, I just have a grudge against the Catholic Church because it tried to turn me away from God... (Its a long story...)

"What happened to jesse?"
School and girlfriend. He assures me he'll be back, so its just a matter of time...

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:02:44 +0100

sciencesaves looks like you just gotta stock up on booze on Saturdays then bud ;)

Hope you don't dip in to your Sunday stock on Saturday nights though haha.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 03:50:46 +0100

pokoj, It's all in your head. Wishful thinking can cause profound sensations. By now, you and I both know there's no sense in thinking we'll get together on this one. What happened to jesse?

I don't understand why the catholics wouldn't want a "hair of the dog" available after the usual weekend imbibement. Let's blame that one on the religious anti-booze pricks of the 20th century.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:52:11 +0100

badswim:
What your parents choose to push on you cannot be helped. It is there perogative, and if the law were to start interfering with that it would lead to many dark places...

As far as for the liquor thing... I hereby apologise on behalf of all still-human Christians for you not being able to buy liquor on Sundays. But blame the Catholics...

(Sorry still-human Catholics:)

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:47:51 +0100

ss:
"Why do you continue to defend the concept of god as an actual entity? I think you're clinging to the notion, and I don't understand why."

I'm not the one clinging... I ignored God for as long as I could... I can no more truthfully state He doesn't exist than I can truthfully state Love or pain or fear or joy don't (and I'm not likening God to an emotion because those are not mere emotions)... But as far as helping you to understand, I am at a loss... I can only offer my faith, but if you see me as dissillusioned, or deluded, I do not know how to convince you otherwise...

"I suppose that's why I "just don't get it", and that's what irritates me. I know better. I will not have "faith" until I get something more than what has been supplied for centuries as the reason to have faith."

Its not so much that you don't get it, I really don't think you want to... and I can sympathise... this would all be much easier...

"Religions survive because they do help a lot of people, I only feel that the belief is not necessary, it deludes, divides, and controls those who submit to it."

Religion does what you describe. God tears it down.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Mon, 19 May 2008 13:57:18 +0100

"when in modern history has religon been 'imposed' on any of you?"

Two examples.

It began the day I was born. My parents decided I should go to church and be a Xtian. I didn't have a choice.

Also, here in Minnesota - you can't buy liquor from a liquor store on Sundays. The only reason that's a law, is because Xtian legislators thought it was the right thing to do.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Mon, 19 May 2008 05:58:46 +0100

31 !!! rock on ss... reason rules !!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Sat, 17 May 2008 12:50:32 +0100

This is just to bump the count to 30, and perhaps catch attention, as this will get buried on page 4 soon! Lots of new activity, I love it!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Sat, 17 May 2008 12:44:52 +0100

Wow, took a lot of study to catch up on this one! Since this is jesse's re, I will start by saying that as far as the "delusions of persecution", I agree. I will take my viewpoint to the extreme, and use examples like taking "religion is imposed" out of the usual context to make a point at times, because I cannot continue to debate a topic such as this, when I am playing by the rules of logic, and the other viewpoint is free to create any "proof" they feel like to justify the conclusions that they have already accepted. This is how I get burned. I am held to a higher standard for some reason as a non-believer, when I feel it should be the opposite. After all, I'm not the one making thing up.
I equate spirituality to concience, and things like the golden rule. I do not need to believe in some unknown force to help me feel better about my situation, or to ease my mind when it comes to the reality of life.
Defending the bible, or the belief in an entity that cannot be felt with any overwhelming general concensus in humanity, such as a supreme being, or creator, to me is somewhat silly. As humans, we have the tools required to achieve what is possible in our day and age. The ability of self-awareness and critical thinking brought us out of the primitive, and into the modern age.
Lets not give up all the progress we've made as a species by allowing ancient beliefs or random thoughts and feelings to guide our way of thinking.

pokoj, Why do you continue to defend the concept of god as an actual entity? I think you're clinging to the notion, and I don't understand why. I suppose that's why I "just don't get it", and that's what irritates me. I know better. I will not have "faith" until I get something more than what has been supplied for centuries as the reason to have faith. Religions survive because they do help a lot of people, I only feel that the belief is not necessary, it deludes, divides, and controls those who submit to it.

JD, I agree with the majority of what you say, and I think you experience the same thing that I do in these discussions. One error, or misstep,and it becomes an opportunity for the opposite viewpoint to discredit all the truth that has been stated. This is how theism is perpetuated. The people who are really paying attention, such as Hilge and pokoj, will not miss the opportunity, because we CONSTANTLY do that to them.

btw, pokoj and Hilge, I don't lump you in with the blind faithful, and I appreciate your viewpoint, even though it is not exactly the same as mine is.

Batter up, jesse! My virtual midwest neighbor! :)

Time for a nice lie down!

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Fri, 16 May 2008 23:55:19 +0100

I wasn't trying to downplay Jesus on my last post either. He was a great man, but he was just a man like you and I.

Could you tell me more about this Jim Jones character and what happened to him?

There are just 2 core differences that will explain why I can't ever be a Christian. The information that I have learned about Jesus as being our equal and not the messaiah of the God of Abraham, and the fact that if I support the church by being a Christian I am giving that much more power to the religious right so they can bomb the middle east in the name of the God of Abraham.

Comment on: Re: Should people have the right to freedom FROM religion?

Bigthink — Fri, 16 May 2008 23:46:46 +0100

Well you might say that I should be in a mental ward when I state this but... I have learned a lot of things about Jesus of Nazareth through extra-terrestrial sources. Beings that are much more advanced spiritually and technologically than we are, pretty much what we are to rats they are to us.

Mary was not a Virgin, there was a father and it was not Joseph.

The crucifixion never occured.

He did not resurrect, and he will not physically return.

Jesus had 3 kids with 3 different women, the women seduced him and he felt horrible after he did it but it still happened so he had to accept it, the holy grail is actually a documented bloodline of Jesus' grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Jesus only became such a great spiritual healer because at a young age he experienced hatred towards a playmate and as he touched the child the child was mortally wounded. He knew then that he had a great potential that he must learn to use for good.

Jesus' teachings have been perverted by the bible and many of the claims in the bible are false. The fish and bread story for example never happened.

Jesus actually was a reincarnate of one of those spiritually adept extra-terrestrials and that is why he was naturally so much more spiritual than others.

Those are just some of the things about Jesus, there is a lot more information about revelations, genesis, exodus, and several other bible stories but that will take a long time to explain.