Bigthink - Idea Comments Feed

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:25:11 +0100

Sorry. I have been away for a month and haven't been keeping up with BigT.

Eugenedis

I can't take what you say seriously. Atoms are not held together by love. Ask any reputable physicist.

There is plainly no such thing as Universal love, and no empirical evidence to suggest the existance of a God or any other high conscience or consciousness.

Personally, I am not seeking Nirvana and if I was I wouldn't use drugs to do so. The physical world - the only world we have, is sufficiently exciting and wonderous without having to create artificial meaning.

Peace.

RO

Afterthought: The world has never been flat. In the past some people thought it was, but it turned out that they were wrong.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:48:52 +0100

Love is no reproductive activity, nor vice versa. The atoms are glued together coz of Love. Universal Love from a Higher Consciensce. A Conscience that views a million years a a millisecond. But, Hey! We all want Nirvana in a pill. Don't we all? And, moreover, the more sexed up we are, the less we Love, regardless of egocentric ponderations, coz, remember, the Earth used to be flat. Or maybe it still is, for some of its inhabitants.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:23:08 +0100

Hi there Luke

There have been times (I am thinking of 1300-1800 Europe) when child mortality was very high. In such times there is plenty of evidence that parents did not making a big emotional investment in their children until they reach an age where their chance of survival were more certain. This has always been interpreted as an emotional self defence reaction. If a married couple has ten children and only two survive (the example is from my own family history in the 1850's) the parents will necessarily become hardened.

Skep

I agree with your thoughts on grief. Any death reduces the tribe's chances of survival.

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:06:59 +0100

Hey Skeptic44,

I would doubt very seriously that the death of a child in any era was not mourned. David from a biblical perspective mourned deeply from death of his children. I can't objectively interview people in 1700's but from history never has their been a time where we just moved to the next child.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:08:13 +0100

I think of grief as a byproduct of the nessisary conection. You form this bond in order to ensure the survival of your genes. And when the bond is broken you feel a chemical reaction that we call grief. The reason, or condition for the conection is passing on the geenes. So there needs to be some pain involved in loosing the conection to make the instinct behave as it should.

And about turning straight to the next child. Well it is only recentlly that we have had the luxury of sll or most of our children surviving till old age. So it is the curent conditions that have provided us the luxury to grieve, back in the dark ages a kid dieing could be a common event throughout your life. So people would do just that forget about the dead one and turn to the next one. Now we dont have to dont usually watch our children die, so it is unessisary to have a more shallow connection, and it pays to have a deeper one because in the modern world the more love and attention you give each kid the more likelly they are not onlly to survive but to succed. You can say we are evolving to fit our self created enviroment, but the love is still conditional. The reason for it both in the drak ages is now is passin og you genetic heritage.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:37:29 +0100

This statement: "You love for you daughter is conditional on your genetic connection" Is absolutely correct. I thought that unconditional love meant present and future tense. The statement you made means unconditional love is not possible if there are conditions prior to the feelings of Love. I would've never argued that position. Past behaviour always conditions present and future behaviour. But I doubt most people use unconditional love in that respect.

Most I would think, see unconditional love as in the moment and the future. Parents that have had their children die, are no longer loving on the condition of their genetic connection, yet still they Love. Their sadness doesn't make logical sense if it is only sadness that their genes in that respect aren't continued. They would quickly turn to the next child they could make to pass on their genes.

Unconditional Love depends on excluding past conditions at the declaration or love or their is no unconditional love.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:29:31 +0100

Luke

Your love for you daughter is not unconditional. You have a major vested interest in her success, like it or not. She is the carrier of your genetic material. She represents a potential continuance of your genetic line. When you have warm and fuzzy feelings about her, it is an instinctive response common to parents that ensures actions for her maintenance and protection.

You love for you daughter is conditional on your genetic connection.

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 11:42:43 +0100

I unconditionally love my daughter so I have to disagree. Roakes don't you unconditionally love your children? There has to be some unconditional love in this world for me it is only my offspring. And yes I can save you the statement no matter or horrible or crazy she could turn out or do I would still Love her and die for her.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 22:35:41 +0100

Roakes:
to correct myself... I wasn't JUST making my beliefs known... I also want to know all that you can say about them...

Please comment more... I appreciate the opinion of my fellow human more than almost anything

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Fri, 30 May 2008 02:13:28 +0100

I understand that... I'm just making my beliefs known... 'ride si sapis'

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Thu, 29 May 2008 22:39:38 +0100

Hi there brother pokoj

As you are aware, I am a card carrying, if not very active, member of the BigThink fraternity of non-believers. I must admit to being uninterested in the Atheism debate as I see no likely useful outcome to the discussion. The simple fact is that religion plays little part in the society I live in, and none what ever in my life at all.

Thus my view on your standpoint is one of incredulity. You make a number of empirical claims that cannot be substantiated. From my standpoint, there are no incorporeal forces such as God or the Holy Spirit. Love is a term used to describe a range of emotions that people feel for one another. It has no general physical or spiritual manifestation.

The original point of my posting was to challenge the traditional understanding of love in the hope that a more practical approach might give people a greater chance of happiness.

(I did enjoy the notion that Love might be somehow subject to laws that sounded similar to Newtons law of energy conservation. I have a geeks taste for absurdist humour.)

Peace be with you.

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:28:27 +0100

in skeptics "lets try to define omnipotence" topic, herbiep asked me how I define Love:

"Could you define love for me as an attribute separate from love of something?"

I believe in saying "God is Love" it means that God is the true, original source of Love. My understandings of Love imply the connection between souls, and to the ultimate soul. In this sense, Love is almost like a kind of energy in that it cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be perceived. But this perception allows it into the soul, and through the soul into the heart. Human love, (love that has almost been imprisoned within a body, without the continued return to God,) often becomes stagnant, causing many of the problems we see with failed relationships, obsessions, and the despair of losing loved ones. To me it is beyond emotion, though it arouses certain emotions, and beyond a mere feeling. I have yet to decide if Love implies the Holy Spirit, if that is what scripture meant by those two words. As with all my beliefs, I am still coming to terms with it.

Roakes how would you view this standpoint?

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Thu, 29 May 2008 07:24:47 +0100

Eratosthenes

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Do I sound bitter and twisted? Strange, I dont feel that way. I have been very lucky in love. I have loving parents, loving sister and brother, loving wife, and two teenage children who talk to me in a civil manner (which I count as love).

Love is very important, but I think it means more when it is tripped of fantasies that are often attached to the idea. I have always found that understanding the interests of others helps a great deal in getting on well with people, particularly with the people that I love.

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Thu, 29 May 2008 06:09:01 +0100

Do you get the feeling that "roakes" maybe got the short straw in a relationship or two?

Just because there may be an evolutionary advantage for species that love, that does not exclude the possibility of unconditional love, or diminish its beauty any less than knowing the chemical composition of stars diminishes the beauty of a clear night sky.

While a person's germ line might increase its chances of passing itself on by encoding an ability to love in its host, the actual host does not need to have any special interest in loving.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Sun, 25 May 2008 23:55:44 +0100

Brian

I think we have a better chance of more people behaving in the manner you promote, if they have a reason too.

People are selfish. They need to understand the pay off to any course of action.
If people understand that the advance of peace, love and harmony the world over will improve their personal circumstances, then I think that they will buy in.

I think that we have a better chance of improving the world we live in by demonstrating how people can benefit from their own changes in behaviour, rather than by referencing to an abstract idea.

Your input is constructive and always appreciated. There should be more people in the world like you (and CC of course).

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Sun, 25 May 2008 22:53:25 +0100

I'm going to approach this with the idea of loving all conditions...absolute love.

I think of absolute love as a frame of mind in which the application of desire for and acceptance of everything is unwavering. A person possessing this desire and acceptance will give love, be open to receive love, and with that will create a cycle of love.

The desire for peace, love, and harmony the world over or the universe and beyond for that matter, will be what drives people to understand how to love absolutely.

Absolute love is loving everything equally for reasons like, 'we need everything for anything to work.'

Life that can love will...and I still believe we can love everything. But, close seems like it would be pretty good. If we communicate love, chemicals will react.

I am glad to contribute anything I can to this and I hope my input is constructive.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Sun, 25 May 2008 09:20:26 +0100

I want to give you a good answer. I can't imagine stopping until I do.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Sun, 25 May 2008 07:20:57 +0100

Bryan,

You have made some interesting claims, but offered nothing to substantiate them. I think that for your argument to be taken seriously, you have to get down to cases, no matter how gruesome they may be.

RO

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Sat, 24 May 2008 18:14:07 +0100

Unconditional love is not unrealistic. Life is capable.

I could run through some scenarios and tell you if I think anyone could or would not love in that case. But, I'm not going to. Gets gruesome.

Love is real. If you want to call it nothing more than a chemical reaction, then chemicals will react.

Unconditional love is not a crock of shit. Though, I will agree the notion seems distant.

That is all from me for now.

Comment on: Is there such a thing as unconditional love?

Bigthink — Tue, 20 May 2008 04:46:22 +0100

A CROCK OF SHIT! WOW!

I just found this.

Great post though!

WOW!

No comment, for now.