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Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:19:31 +0100

Unfortunately, I cannot see a successful junction between the two. I see the two colliding at the intersection. The very foundation of reason revolves around facts and theories that are logically sound. Faith is a state, in most instances, where people dwell into a state of non-thinking. Reason travels down the avenue of critical thinking, and it will never deviate.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:20:40 +0100

The question of whether Faith and Science can coexist assumes that they are opposing views on the same question. In fact, Faith and Science provide answers two very different questions. Science answers the question of "how?" Conversely, Faith or Religion answers the question of "why?" If we can assume these two differences, the conversation changes.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:00:40 +0100

I don%u2019t think that Faith is necessarily linked with a belief in God. I think Faith is defined by an %u201Cunfounded%u201D belief in something. That is, the belief that something will truly happen, even when all reason and experience contradicts such outcome. Even to the point that the rationale self of the %u201Cbeliever%u201D knows that such outcome is improbable but arbitrarily chooses to %u201Cbelieve%u201D in it. Thus, one can say that our certainty of expecting a particular outcome has two sources: rationale and faith. While some are dominated by the former (light switch), and others are dominated by the latter (like believing in God) it is the combination of both that dictates our decisions.

Let%u2019s stretch the idea of the light switch. Yes, you believe that the light will come on when you flip the switch because of past experience. That is rationale. But what if you heard that there is a blackout that affected 99% of the city? Then when you flip the switch your certainty from past experience is washed away, but you may still chose to believe that you are the 1% unaffected by the blackout and that the light will still come on when you flip the switch. Why do you still choose to believe in that when you have a 1% chance of being wrong? You chose because you have faith.

Thus I would say that faith and rationale are mutually exclusive, but the strengths of the believe on certain outcome is certainly dominated by the combination of both.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:43:40 +0100

Dr Gonzo

I think that we are at cross purposes over definitions.

I have been using a dictionary definition of Faith %u2013 Belief that is not based on proof. I gather that when you use the word Faith, you refer to certain religious beliefs, particularly belief in a God.

When I use the word Reason, I mean the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences. You might be using an alternative definition of Reason as Sound judgement: good sense.

Using your definitions, the compatibility between Faith and Reason becomes as issue of whether the faith claims of religion are sound or sensible.

When you conclude that faith and reason as opposed to one another, I take it as a statement about the veracity of the faith claims made be various religious groups.

It all depends on the meaning of the words.

Thanks,

RO

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 19:28:01 +0100

Ok let's be honest here. When people say faith under the category of "Faith and Beliefs" they don't mean in light bulbs, they mean in a God.

Now, with that being squared away: no, they cannot be compatible. The center of religion is that there is some being that you can't perceive doing things you can't understand. And if you are a faithful practitioner of religion you are not only expected by urged to accept this all without question. When you reason you are taking information that you have gathered through experience or other sources and making sense of the information for yourself. It is impossible to do so when you are not permitted to ask questions, especially when those questions are about something that is incomprehensible.

In conclusion, faith and reason are essentially in opposition to one another.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:07:36 +0100

roakes... a funny aside if I may.. there was an old British TV programme in the '60's, aimed at teens, called Catweazle. He was a middle-ages magician/sorcerer who ended up in the future. When the young boy who befriends him turns on a lightbulb, he is awestruck. He mis-hears the explanation and ever after
he refers to it as 'electrickery'...
I'm smiling at the memory.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 09:09:54 +0100

CriticalMass & musycks

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I was attempting to make a point about the uncertainty of knowledge and in my haste I may have expressed myself clumsily.

I don%u2019t think that it is unreasonable to link faith and reason in the way I have attempted.

Faith describes information that we accept without having a first hand proof. In relation to reason, you could call it a premise. Reason is the process by which we employ that information or premise to make (hopefully) logical inferences. For instance: I expect the light to come on if I flick the switch. That knowledge isn%u2019t certain, because there might be a black out, so in this instance the nature of my expectation is contingent %u2013 a matter of faith. I can use that expectation or premise to make an inference about what will happen when I flick the switch. That mental process of inferring possible outcomes from information is reasoning.

I think that musycks nailed the main point of my posting.

Thanks
RO

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:41:35 +0100

critical mass, there is an area of overlap I think, but I like your breakdown best.
roakes made some great points about the quality of information that informs reason/faith and that's where a lot of faith based claims fail the test. Their information is mostly incredulous... this does not seem to be an impediment to some from signing on though!

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:50:32 +0100

roakes, I think you have faith and reason tied together artificially. When you turn on a light switch you don't have faith that it will come on, you are making a reasonable assumption that it will come on because of your past experiences. Thats reason.

You think the medicine will work because your doctor has a degree in medicine and you have been told/read/discovered that the medicine will work for what you have, therefore, you reason, that the medicine will work for you.

Your reasoning has nothing to do with your faith. You have faith in your mother's judgment that this doctor will help you but when you reason to the conclusion this medicine will work (which is I believe how you tie reason and faith together) your faith in your mother and the medicine working are separate things.

It's plausible but I think a stretch.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:27:31 +0100

This is the first thing you need to comprehend if you are to comprehend god.

Essentially there is two kinds of life on earth. First, the green things which use chlorophyll and carbon dioxide to capture and convert sunlight into (food) carbon chains of sugars.

Secondly, all other life is akin to parasites that consume the green things, or the animals that eat those that consume the green things, or those that eat the leftovers.

So the quickening that stirs life comes directly from the sun, either by soaking it up directly, or by eating life. There is nothing else.

The Sun is our father in heaven.
http://www.bigthink.com/faith-beliefs/9020

Our father, who art in heaven;
our mother, the earth:
we are your children...

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:30:47 +0100

Faith and reason are interdependent.

If by faith we mean the acceptance of facts without proof on the basis of some authority, it is probably a critical element in all our thinking and reasoning. When we flick on a light switch, we have faith that the light will come on. The authority in this case is previous experience or an understanding of electricity production and distribution. A doctor may prescribe medicine to make us well. We have faith that the medicine will work. The authority is the doctor%u2019s credibility and the medicine%u2019s approval of the appropriate government agency. Your religious leader might tell you to act in a particular way or risk eternal damnation. The authority may be his particular holy book.

Given that we need information for reasoned thought, and that in a complex world we do not have proven knowledge to cover all contingencies, we necessarily rely on accepted information in our daily thinking. Most reasoning is dependent of this sort of faith.

The problems of arise when the information or the authority come into question. What happens in a black out? What if the doctor is a quack or the government agency has made an error and sanctioned the use of a medicine that turns out to be dangerous. What happens if the religious leader%u2019s particular holy book turns out to be a work of fiction. In these instances, faith is misplaced. The reasoning that on which the incorrect information is based may result in unintended or harmful results.

The issue between faith and reason is really about the quality of the information that we accept on faith. It is likely that much of this information will not stand up to empirical testing.

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:34:10 +0100

I have faith, and have reason, they are compatible. It is in the nature of a person's faith that they become incompatible. For example, some believe that the world was created in the last 100 000 years despite well reasoned evidence to the contrary

Comment on: Are faith and reason compatible?

Bigthink — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 12:27:40 +0100

"Faith" is so broad; faith in what? I think it is possible to have a rational belief in non-physical spirituality, if we believe we have free will. Free will means, by definition, that we call the shots and are more than pawns of some supreme being and more than physical machines. If our decisions are not dictated by physical laws, they are non-physical. A part of our everyday reality is the smooth fusing of the physical and the non-physical. That's spirituality at work.