Bigthink - Idea Comments Feed

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:19:22 +0100

Hmm, my italics tags don't seem to work here... That's what the "[i]" and "[/i]" were in the previous post.

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:17:07 +0100

Musycks - I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the all-doing god... Just because god [i]can[/i] do everything, doesn't mean he [i]does.[/i] For example, if god does everything he can do, then that would mean a hedgehog will drop out of the air next to me in the next 20 seconds.

...

No hedgehog. Either I've disproved that god exists, or he doesn't do everything that he can.

Also, as you say, religions put god beyond logic. If we're going by what religions say, then there's your answer. However, I'm pretty sure that's not really a satisfactory answer for either of us. I may believe in God, but not in everything told to me about him. He may be omniscient/omnipotent, or he may not. I don't know. I don't really think bringing the main religions into this really works, as neither of us fully believe in 'em. (One of us more so than the other)

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:36:28 +0100

musycks

then it's not predestination that you have a problem with, which im sure u do too, but it is the very idea of an omnipotent/ omniscient one. And you are right, in the sense that the all-doing god is an idea itself that doesn't make sense. but can it be that we just can't comprehend an idea so awesome??

az,

i get it and you make some valid points. i often imagine what i would be like in another time and place and think i would be the same reactionary that i am now, but who knows. not me.

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:32:02 +0100

Az,
Free will is impossible under the model most religioso operate... the omnipotent/omniscient one.
The fact that religious deny that means they refuse to apply logic and indeed put their god beyond logic, so it becomes a pointless circular exercise.

'can god create something over which 'he' has no control'... yes or no.
yes.. then he is not omni/omni.. and not god.
no... the same.
'but he chooses not to' is not an option... you can't put an addendum on a constant, no matter how much you'd like to.

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:34:09 +0100

I don't have an answer for the "sum of those before us" part, but I think I have an idea for the rest.

I have heard some people say that each person chooses the parents they are born to, so maybe we can also choose what time we live in. Certainly there are things beyond our control, but that isn't necessarily predestination. We don't have the power to choose our own reality, so I suppose we don't have TOTAL free will, we can't choose the situations we react to, but I think we have the will to react in the way we wish to those situations we have.

As for our lives being deja vu, that may be true, but I personally don't believe it. So, how can predestination be real in the situation I outlined, if we haven't already made our choices?

Perhaps there really aren't other choices we would allow ourselves to make. Maybe that's what a soul is; the information that says how a specific personality will react to any event. So that would mean that God, or the Fates, or what have you, have sat down with each person's soul, looks at the problems that soul will confront in life, and then figures out how that person would react. This form of predestination wouldn't result in us following the plans of some Creator, but instead it would mean that our reactions are already coded into our beings. We may see other options, but for each of us there is only one path we would ever choose.

Again, this would mean that predestination is effectively pointless, just someone figuring out how our personalities would react beforehand, in accordance with who we are.

I'm not sure if I'm making myself very clear here, but hopefully you can see what I'm getting at.

Comment on: Re: IS FREE WILL AN ILLUSION?

Bigthink — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 16:39:30 +0100

I hope that they are not mutually exclusive, for I desire both a say in my own life as well as the hope of being a part of a larger story of time, but this means that time has already come and gone and we are merely reliving (or recalling) what has happened before. (dejavu is a trip), but they seem like they almost have to be mutually exclusive in a way. how can be have the choice and already have made it? or how can we be free but are put in this specific place in space and time? we didn't have a choice on how we showed up and we won't really have a choice about how we go. so how do we legitimize our choices? do they mean nothing at all? ill give that one a big NO, but in a way "it all comes down to nothing."--dave matthews
are we a sum of those before us? if this is true then we create the sum of the future. but this may mean that we are only a an effect from a cause and a cause to another effect, but without the previous set of causes and effects we would not be able to have been in the circumstances to generate the next one. does this mean our CHOICE is meaningless? i don't think so, but many argue otherwise.