Question: Whom would you like to interview?

Transcript: Well she’s dead, but when I get to heaven I’m gonna talk to Mother Theresa. And I can’t wait to sit down and talk to her about how she lived a life of faith even though she had a lot of doubts. You know some of her more . . . her writings have come to light recently or have been published, and some people were very shaken by that – that Mother Theresa had doubts. And I’m like, “You go girl! Of course you had doubts. We all do.” It wouldn’t require faith if you didn’t have doubts. So really . . . but I’d love to sit down and just talk with her and say, “Tell me how you consistently, over 80 plus years, lived a life that was a life full of faith and service to God in spite of your doubts. And how did you give so much of yourself to so many other people, and deny yourself in such a way that so many other people’s lives were blessed?” I’ve been to Mother Theresa’s home for the dying in Calcutta. I’ve been to one of her orphanages in Rwanda. And she continues to inspire me, and I can’t wait to sit down next to her for a few thousand years and have a good chat.

Question: What should we be asking ourselves?

Transcript: Who will speak up for people with HIV/AIDS if not you? Who will be the voice of the 143 million orphans who tonight will roam the streets; who will live by themselves under bridges and under bushes; and live in huts with no one to care for them? Who will speak up for those 143 million children if it’s not you?

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: A clash of civilizations? I . . . You know I think when you boil all of the struggles that we face around the world – not just in the Middle East, not just in Africa, not in the United States – when you just look at the human condition; when you really look at us as human beings, it goes back to that kingdom of me. I don’t believe we’re basically good. I know that some people believe . . . There are a lot of people who believe we’re basically good with the capacity for evil. But I actually believe the opposite is true. I believe that we are each of us born with that kingdom of me reigning very strongly in our lives; looking out for number one; looking out for ourselves. And because we are self-centered, self-absorbed creatures, I think that we are basically born with an evil bent with the capacity for good when we are in relationship with God. I think being in a relationship with God is really the only way to deal . . . kind of deal this death blow to that part of me that only wants what’s good for me. So I think what’s happening in the Middle East without dealing with all the complexities of that, which I’m certainly not qualified to deal with, is to just say at the heart of it is at the heart of every conflict that’s ever happened between any groups of people ever – individuals or on a country level – is that somewhere in the bottom of it is the interest of self. And when the interest of self is there that’s greater than the interest of others, wars ensue. Conflicts happen. It’s inevitable. It is what will happen.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I think that there is . . . there is a requirement to see your neighbor; to love your neighbor as yourself. And what does that mean? It means to want for my neighbor what I want for myself. What I want for my neighbor’s children is what I always wanted for my children. Every child deserves a home. Every child deserves a family. Every child deserves to grow up with people who love and who care for them. Everybody deserves medical . . . adequate medical healthcare. It’s wrong that we in America . . . there’s such a disparity between what we have access to and what the rest of the world has access to. I want clean water for myself and my family. I want that for my neighbor. I want to live free of war. I want that for my neighbor. I don’t wanna have disease be something that keeps me . . . that causes me to live a shortened life. I don’t want that for my neighbor. It’s wanting for my neighbor what I want for myself.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Sadly we’ve . . . we’ve . . . we’ve made a pretty big mess of things in the last 100 years. I mean the progress . . . My mother is 80 . . . almost 84. And for her to chronicle her life, you know, of where . . . what has happened in her lifetime from the . . . the AIDS to living like, you know cell phones, and computers, and airplane travel, and all the things that were not present when she was a child; just to list those accomplishments – the diseases that have been eradicated; the problems that have been fixed – those are gigantic. But sadly it’s also the hundred years in which there were more people killed in war, and poverty, and hunger I think than ever before. And that part’s sad. But I guess the part that I think is that it doesn’t have to stay that way. So that’s where my optimism is. The pessimism is, oh, there’s been so much. And there’s so much in the last five years that I’ve seen. I really had never seen the . . . the underbelly of humanity in the way I have in the last five years. I’ve seen raw evil. I’ve been to Cambodia. I’ve been to Rwanda. I have seen little girls . . . I’ve been on a door just on the other side, three feet away from me of little girls held behind padlocked doors, trafficked in the sex trade. I have seen people dying under trees homeless because they’ve been pushed aside because they were HIV-positive. I have seen a lot of evil in the last five years, and I think it’s really naïve to think that it’s all gonna get better . . . just magically somehow it’s gonna get better. It’s gonna take effort from every single person. It’s gonna take a commitment to look outside of ourselves. It’s gonna take dangerous surrender. It’s a giving of our lives to those beyond ourselves. It’s a willingness to not just be ruined by the American dream of success. I say I’m a seriously disturbed and gloriously ruined woman. I am seriously disturbed enough to the point about what’s going on in this world that I’m not content another minute to leave it that way. But I’m also ruined for the American dream as it is. I’m . . . The American dream by itself will ruin you. That pursuit of self and success, it will ruin you. Well totally surrendering your life to God will ruin you, but it will gloriously ruin you. And for that I’m grateful, and I have no intent to be anything other than that.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Well Rick would say I’m a pessimist. I would say I’m a realist. I think there’s a great distinction between pessimism and realism. I think that, again, in very much the same way I see a lot of things, I think left to ourselves we are making a mess of things. I think that when people, especially the faith community, comes to the table and says, “We have a responsibility for these global issues. These are not things we can leave to politicians. These are not things that we can just let businesses deal with, but these are things that we must become engaged with.” Then I think that we can make a significant difference in every one of those things – in poverty, in disease, literacy, corruption – the things that really tear at the fabric of our lives. So I’m optimistic because I see more and more people looking at it through that lens. And I think as we do that, we can . . . we literally can change the world.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I get a little confused when I hear people say, “Well I have religious faith, but it doesn’t have anything to do with my politics.” And I wanna go, “What?” My faith influences everything I do. And I believe if you have a personal faith, whatever it is, to act as though it doesn’t influence your decision-making is very naïve and disingenuous. I realize people are trying to say, “I have faith, but I’m not gonna . . . I’m not gonna let anybody else tell me what to do.” I understand that, but . . . but I think that we have to really just honestly acknowledge that either your faith or your lack of faith, or your beliefs or your lack of beliefs color every decision you make. Your worldview is colored by your beliefs. My beliefs about God – the fact that I believe that God is a creator; my beliefs that . . . that He cares about everybody that He’s made; my beliefs that Jesus is the Savior of the world – those things color and shape every single decision I make. And I think then that politicians are shaped in exactly the same way – by whatever their religious beliefs are. And I don’t know how you can separate those. Neither do I think that . . . As I’ve said, I don’t think it’s the role of government to change culture. I think it’s the role of the church to change culture. So I’m not insisting that a politician have the same necessarily . . . necessarily the same belief system I do. I just want them to acknowledge that their belief system will influence their decisions, whatever that is.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Absolutely. But even more than the government, I believe it’s the church’s role. I believe it’s the faith community. I think unfortunately we’ve given away a lot of the things that the church has historically was – and Rick I’m sure will talk about the same thing – but we both really are convinced that throughout history, it’s been the church that was the place that the poor went to; was the place that the sick . . . You know that’s what the church did. And somehow we’ve gotten a little off kilter and given that back to the government so that if . . . Too often if people would come to churches and they might say, “I’m hungry.” Somebody might say, “Go ask for food stamps.” You know, “Go ask the government and they’ll give you food stamps.” Or if somebody is sick, “Well go to the county hospital and they’ll take care of you.” And we’ve pushed away the sick and the poor as opposed to bringing them in, embracing and welcoming them, and saying, “You’re our problem. You are not the government’s problem. You are our problem.” So I do believe the government has a responsibility, but I really believe it’s the church who has an even greater responsibility. And we need to step back up to the plate and take that responsibility back.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I do. Again back to that concept, if you . . . If you have been blessed with much, much is required. People who have the most of anything in this world – if it’s money; if it’s time; if it’s energy; if it’s expertise; if it’s knowledge – those who have been given those things have the responsibility to share them with those who do not.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Well tithe just means 10 percent. God asks us to give back 10 percent of what we make just to show that we know that all of our blessings come from Him, and to help us not be so selfish and self-centered. So Rick and I have decided – as affluence has come our way through the sale of . . . of his book “Purpose Driven Life” – that we don’t want . . . I mean how many pairs of shoes can you have before it starts feeling a little hollow? I mean how many little electronic gadgets can you own before you start going, “Isn’t there something more than this? Isn’t there . . . Isn’t there any more to life than collecting gadgets, or shoes, or purses, or events?” We just find money and spending it on ourselves to be a very hollow way to live. It’s much more gratifying – it’s much more fulfilling – to know that money that we have is used to make a difference in the lives of other people. I’d much rather do that. It’s . . . it’s just a much better . . . it’s a much more fulfilling way to live.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I’m a breast cancer survivor. I’ve had breast cancer and melanoma. If I felt like that . . . And let’s just say I heard that you or someone close to me was diagnosed with cancer, and I felt like that I had something that was going to cure your cancer. I would be a terrible human being if I didn’t at least offer it to you. Now you might decide, “No thank you. That sounds like a really radical thing. I think that’s a quack. I’m not really interested in it.” That wouldn’t change my wanting to be with you and to have a friendship and a relationship with you even though you might decide you didn’t like what I was offering. So I think the same thing applies as in . . . in Christian faith, or evangelizing as you said. I happen to believe that I have . . . not because it’s mine, but because God in His word says, “I want a relationship with every human being.” I know that. And so I would be a terrible human being if I didn’t offer that to you – to at least just say, “Here’s what I found. Here’s the relationship I have. I’d like to introduce you to my friend God. I’ve got my little card here: Kay Warren, friend of God. I’d like to introduce you.” And if you said, “Thank you very much. I appreciate that, but I’m really not interested.” Then I would say, “Okay. But let’s be friends. Hey, can we go to dinner tonight?” You know or, “Would you pick up my mail for me while I’m gone this week on vacation?” It should not affect the level of relationship. But neither should I not tell you what I think is the most important news in the whole world.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I think they need to have heroes that inspire them. I think they need to see the adults and the generation above them . . . Well two things. They need to see the adults and the generation above them as people who are living lives of integrity; people who are living passionately; people who are living beyond themselves, who are not satisfied with trite answers; people who are willing to go there – to enter into any discussion. No topic is off limits, and they see people who actually put their faith into practice. It seems like maybe students or younger generations see their parents’ generation as those who did a lot of talking but not a lot of action. So I think they need to see that happening to inspire them. But I also think that they need to believe that they have something significant to contribute. There’s been a lot of talk in the last, I don’t know, 15 to 20 years about the generations . . . I’m a Gen . . . baby boomer; so the generations coming behind me, there’s been a lot of criticism of them as being people who are very self-absorbed; thinking about their career; thinking about where they’re gonna go in life; materialistic. And I think if they can see themselves as somebody who can make a significant contribution, that really all of these things that we’re dealing with on a world basis – all the things that you’re even bringing up – that if they don’t see themselves as not only part of the solution, but the solution, I think when they get mobilized to that, then they’ll get active.

Last week on World AIDS Day, we did not only a global summit on AIDS for just anybody who wanted to come; but on World AIDS Day we did a youth summit. And we had about a thousand students – junior high to college students – gathered at our church, plus 200 churches who simulcasted. So there were several more thousand who were watching by simulcast. There were like 4,000 students on World AIDS Day who were gathered in one place saying, “You know what? We’re gonna take on HIV. We’re not content to let this be something that only our parents’ generation dealt with. We’re not content to just let this be something that takes over and continues to decimate lives. We’re taking a stand. We’re committing to remain HIV-free ourselves. We’re committed to helping other students remain HIV-free. And we’re gonna care for people who are HIV-positive.” The excitement in that place was palpable. You could touch it. You could cut it with a knife. They went out of there so jazzed and so enthusiastic, believing that they had a contribution to make to a significant world problem.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: It’s pretty hard to look into the face of . . . of a child who’s living by themselves in a mud hut, raising themselves because their parents are gone and say, “Hmm, I’m not really interested in you.” It’s pretty hard to look into the faces of people who are working from morning ‘til night to sustain themselves and their families . . . and I don’t know. That sounds like the kind of stuff that you say when you’ve never been there; when you’ve never met anybody who’s suffering; you’ve never met anybody who’s living a different life than you are. But when you make it personal, and those are people with names and faces, that’s an attitude that will disappear in a heartbeat.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript:  Africans are no different than anybody else.  They   . . .  Some of them live . . . have less physically, less materially of this world’s goods.  But they are sure rich in relationships.  I’ve . . .  Some of my heroes are folks I’ve met in Africa.  We talk about that Africa doesn’t need a handout, but it needs a hand up.  And that most people who live in poverty don’t need a handout.  They need dignity.  They need a job.  They need something to make a living for themselves so they can take care of their families.  And to me one of the most powerful things we can do is to help with job training and microfinance, microenterprises.  The stories are amazing of people who received tiny little loans - $10, you know, $5 U.S.  And for us that seems like . . .  That’s a Starbucks coffee plus a donut.  And yet in other places of the world, $5 or $10 makes the difference between a life of bonded slavery to somebody they can’t get out of debt to; somebody living on the edge of poverty; or somebody having their life . . .  So microfinance, microenterprise is a great way to go.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript:   I think there’s some fatigue – AIDS fatigue.  People are tired of having to be so careful.  I think people get . . .  I think a couple of things.  One, they’re not informed.  It’s amazing to me, 26 years after this epidemic was discovered here, how many people still don’t know.  They don’t have the correct information about HIV – how it’s transmitted; how you get it; how you protect yourself against it.  It’s amazing!  I talked to a high school student who lives next door to me a couple of years ago, and I was saying, “So you talk about HIV in school, right?”  And she said, “You know I think they may have spent five minutes on it in a health class.”  And I’m like five minutes on the greatest humanitarian crisis in the world, and we expect our students and teenagers to know?  If parents aren’t doing a good job talking about it, and the schools aren’t doing a good job talking about it, there’s something wrong there.  So we’ve gotta do a better job educating and informing people.  And I think secondly there is a reluctance in our culture to put any limitations on ourselves, any limitations on our sexuality.  There is an increasingly, I would say, attitude in . . . just even watching TV in which people are encouraged to explore sexuality.  And if you do that without the confines of faithful relationships, without the confines of commitments to each other, then STDs and HIV are gonna rise.  There’s . . . there’s just no two ways about it.  I don’t know if you’ve . . . You probably know this, but if there are about a million people in the United States who are HIV positive, there are about 65 million people with STDs.  That’s a lot of sexually transmitted diseases, and people are gonna need to do some behavior change.  And we don’t like that.  We don’t like anybody telling us that we need to put any kind of limitations.  But it is for our own health.  It’s for the health of the people that we’re with; for our children.  To me it just makes sense.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Well the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief I think is actually one of the boldest moves that any President has made about HIV.  There really isn’t anybody who has done as much as he has to committing U.S. funds to the fight against HIV.  And if you’re asking do I think that his approach about prevention, I think there’s some confusion over that.  Some people talk about abstinence only, when really if you look at the information, it’s including abstinence.  I completely disagree with those who would want to do away with talking to people about abstinence.  My own view of it is that . . . that all approaches are needed.  It’s not just this.  It’s not just this.  It’s not just that.  I do not believe that the solution to HIV/AIDS is to condomize the whole world.  That is not the total solution.  Neither do I believe that just telling people to abstain from sexual relationships is the whole answer.  I think it’s much more complex than that, and I think the President’s plan includes all those different approaches.  I don’t know how anybody can really argue that for two people to remain virgins until they get married . . . how can anybody say that doesn’t protect you against HIV or any other sexually transmitted disease?  It does.  How can anybody say being faithful in your relationships – not having multiple partners, not having affairs, not having concurrent partners – how can anybody say that being faithful doesn’t protect you against HIV?  It does.  But I would also say how can anybody say that . . . that the consistent and correct use of condoms if you’re gonna have sexual intercourse . . . how can anybody say that doesn’t add some protection against HIV?  So to me it’s really all of it.  But this is where I disagree with some folks as well.  I think we’ve given into the lower goal – the lower goal of just managing HIV.  I wanna end it.  I wanna stop it.  I’m not content with just managing this virus that destroys families; that kills men and women in the prime of their lives; that leaves children with no parents.  I’m not content with that in any way that I would be content with just trying to manage polio, or just manage smallpox, or to just try and manage cancer.  What’s our goal for all of that?  It’s to get rid of it.  So I would love to stop HIV.  And I think that if we just talk about correcting . . . correct and consistent condom use, and limiting the number of partners, and needle exchange – offering needle exchange – and waiting for sexual debut – waiting until you’re older to have sex – that’s one way to slow it.  But I think if we wanna stop it, which is my goal . . .  It’s a very audacious goal, and most people would say it’s not possible, but it is my goal that’s gonna require men and women to make commitments to being virgins.  It’s gonna require people teaching men and boys how to respect women and girls.  A lot of women and girls aren’t really given choices around the world.  They are victims of gender violence.  They’re abused.  They’re taken advantage of.  And until men really will decide that they’re gonna respect women, and not violate them, and not force them into sexual encounters, then that’s gonna make it difficult to stop it.  And until I think we open the door to the church as the church around the world being a part of the solution to HIV – both prevention, care, treatment, and support; and then unless we make a commitment to stay faithful to one partner for life, I don’t think we can stop it.  

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Unfortunately I think there are some people who still believe that. I wish I could say that that is an idea that’s completely gone and nobody thinks that way anymore. But I think if people would be completely honest, there are those who still think that. And all you have to do is look at . . . You see people still picketing with those kind of signs every once in a while, and it really makes me angry. And I have to say that I sort of fit into that category for a long time. I . . . Part of my ignorance was I didn’t realize how big it was. I didn’t understand how big the HIV problem was. And the part where I was just absolutely wrong was I thought that it was a gay man’s disease. And in my view at that moment, was that excused me from having to care. I was so wrong. I mean I was completely wrong. And as I began to study and research, I realized first of all it’s not a gay man’s disease. More women than men are infected around the world. But I had to do some . . . In religious terms I had to do some repenting. I had to do some apologizing. I had to . . . I had to do some . . . I cried a (24:30) lot of bitter tears at my own hardheartedness, because I don’t think that’s God’s view at all. I don’t think that . . . If you look at the pages of Scripture – Old Testament and New Testament – God is clearly . . . tells His people to care for the sick. Clearly over and over and over, He tells us to care for the sick. And when you get to the New Testament, you just won’t ever find Jesus asking somebody, “So tell me, how did you get sick? What did you do? Did you put yourself at risk? Did you do anything wrong that has led you to be sick?” You just won’t find it. You’ll find Jesus always saying, “How can I help you?” And so for me, the repenting and the changing of my mind and my heart was to say first of all to God, “I haven’t represented you well. I haven’t even understand . . . understood your heart for people who are sick. So I’m sorry for that.” And then I usually start most conversations with people in the HIV community both here and around the world with an apology. And I just say, “I’m really sorry. Please forgive me. I was wrong. I have not been present. I have not encouraged other people to get involved, and I have a lot of making up to do.” And it’s really cool because every once in a while I’ll find somebody that says, “Yeah! Where ya’ been?” You know, “Where have you been?” But most of the time I’m given such a gracious response where people say, “That was the past. You’re here now.” And that humbles me, you know? Because justifiably people could really beat me up verbally and have nothing to do with me. And while there are a few, most of the people are just like, “We’re just glad you’re here,” you know.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: About five years ago, I read a magazine article that talked about AIDS in Africa. And at that moment in time, I didn’t care anything about AIDS anywhere, let alone in Africa. I didn’t realize it was a problem in the United States. I was just ignorant and misinformed. But for some reason on that one day, I picked up this magazine article and it . . . it rocked my world. It’s as though I had a blindfold on and, you know, like cotton stuffed in my ears, and they were both just gone. The blindfold was gone, the cotton was out of my ears, and I saw for the first time that this . . . that the greatest humanitarian crisis of all times was occurring right under my nose and I hadn’t paid any attention. And I think what was so shocking to me that day when I read that article was that . . . That article talked about, you know, something like 35 million . . . there were 33 million people infected with HIV. And I sat there in my living room and I go, “Do I know anybody who’s HIV positive?” And the answer was no. And it said that there were 12 million children orphaned in Africa due to AIDS. And I thought, “Can I name one orphan?” And I thought, and I couldn’t. And I . . . It was so horrifying I just threw the magazine down. It was like, “How can there be something this big and I not know it – and I not know a single person?” That changed everything for me. It started me on this journey of . . . of trying to figure out how I could be a part of that.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: I think that too many people are expecting perfection. I think too many people are expecting that this other human being is gonna be able to perfectly meet all of their needs; is always gonna understand them; always be there for them. They’re not. And . . . and when we go at it from that aspect of looking for something that no other human being can give to us, of course you’re gonna be disappointed. I think there’s also . . . I don’t (19:50) know that we value promises as much maybe as even in my parents’ generation. When we said to each other . . . When we stood next to each other and made promises to each other, you know, 32 years ago, they were promises that we intended to keep come hell or high water. We were not . . . Divorce just wasn’t an option for us. I realize that that has to be true for both people. You know if one of us had only felt that way, then of course it would be easier to get a divorce. But I think when both people come into a relationship with the idea divorce is not an option . . . I am committed to you. I am making a vow . . . a vow, and I’m not gonna break it. And we’ll find a way to work this out. We’ve done marriage counseling. We’re not embarrassed or ashamed to talk about that. I would encourage anybody to get good marriage counseling. I would say surround yourself with friends who also value their marriage. If you hang out with people who don’t value their own marriage, or they don’t really see that marriage should be an all-your-life kind of a commitment, then you’re gonna be around people who aren’t encouraging . . . They’re not even working in their own marriage that way, and so they’re gonna be more likely to encourage you to go, “Oh he’s such a jerk. Dump him.” Or, “You know what? She’s not . . . she’s not meeting your needs. You should find somebody else.” When you have those kind of friends, it’s really hard to stay committed.” So I’d say go in with the idea that you’re gonna stay together for life. It’s a promise and a vow, and you’re gonna work it out. And that you surround yourself with people who also are very, very committed to their relationships.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: How would I describe love? Seeking the other’s best interest. It . . . it truly is about how can I meet . . . how can I meet your needs? How can I make life better? How can I create a home and a relationship where you feel nurtured? Where you feel valued? Where you feel appreciated? Where each is more willing to give than take? I think it’s a mistake when people talk about 50/50 – you know the relationship should be 50/50 – because that’s really a recipe for disaster. Because you’re always wondering, “Have you given as much as I’ve given?” And that’s . . . You start keeping score. You start noticing where the other person has failed you, where they’ve disappointed you. And the fact is Rick disappoints me. I disappoint him. I have failed him. He has failed me. It’s inevitable. We are broken people. All of us are. And starting with that recognition, somebody said, “You marry a sinner.” So when you let go of those expectations of the other person having to be perfect; always understand what you want; always think of you; but instead being willing to look at it from the aspect of, “How can I . . . how can I serve you? When both people are working off of that premise, I think a marriage has all the chances in the world of lasting until that “death do you part”.

Recorded on: 12/11/07

Transcript: Well we’ve been married almost 33 years. It’s been 32½ , and sometimes we jokingly say we’ve been married something like, you know, 28 happy years out of those 32. Our first couple of years were really rough. We are so different, and we had a very strange and unusual courtship in that . . . which is a long story which I won’t go into, but the bottom line is we didn’t really know each other when we got married. And so all the things that we tell couples today like, “Really get to know each other. Spend at least a year. Go through every season – you know spring, winter, fall, summer. See each other in the good times, the bad times.” We didn’t do any of those things. And if we were to take one of those E-harmony, or some of those dating quizzes that . . . every red flag would come up because we’re so different. But we have learned . . . I think the great thing about that is it has taught us how to . . . how to share, how to be unselfish. Because we are so different, it would be easy to just wanna do everything our own way.

Rick is . . . he’s brilliant. I don’t know anybody like him. But he is so fun. He is this total sanguine. I think my kids . . . One of my kids’ favorite memories is . . . I’m always the rule follower. I’m like, “You gotta go to bed at this time. You got school. You got homework.” And Rick could come breezing in, you know, from out of town and go, “Hey it’s 10 o’clock. Let’s go on one of daddy’s magical mystery tours!” Get ‘em out of bed, take ‘em somewhere and get ‘em ice cream and I’m going, “They’ve got school tomorrow!” But he’s so spontaneous and he’s so fun. He’s brought a lot of lightness to my life. And I think because I’m really serious, and intense, and really passionate about stuff that . . . and much more realistic . . . So I’m the one who’s always taking his feet and yanking ‘em, you know, back down to planet earth while he’s soaring around, you know, thinking of this or that. And it’s really good that we’re different. It’s taken a long time. I think our differences pulled us apart for many years. It’s taken a long time, but I think now we really do appreciate the fact that we see life differently. We approach life differently. We approach situations differently. Our lives are richer because of that. I think a lot of other people would’ve gotten divorced. The amount of differences that we have and the way that it did pull us apart, I think a lot of people would have just said, “This is too hard. This relationship is just too hard.” But we were committed. We took a vow before God that we were gonna stay together. And we were just telling some folks last night at dinner that when we got married almost 32 years ago, we just knew almost nothing about each other. We didn’t know how to communicate. We fought about all the things – money, sex, communication, in-laws, children – we fought about it all. But on our 25th wedding anniversary we renewed our vows to each other. One of the sweetest days of my life, because then we knew what we were saying. And we could really say . . . not just with hopes and dreams, but really the truth, “I am committed to you.” You know we’re different. We are so different, but I can’t imagine my life without you. And I would really encourage people to . . . Most people give up on marriage too soon.

Recorded on: 12/11/07