When we say an art form speaks directly to the soul, bypassing any filtering by the brain, does this lead to a more intuitive way of communing with God?

------------------------------ 

And please consider these lyrics to Sufjan Steven's "Vito's Ordination Song"

I always knew you
in your mothers arms

i have called your name

i have an idea
placed in your mind

to be a better man
ive made a crown for you

put it in your room

and when the bride groom comes
there will be noise; there will be glad,
and a perfect bed

and when you write a poem
i know the words
i know the sounds
before you write it down

only wear your clothes
i wear them too
i wear your shoes
and your jacket too
i always knew you
in your mothers arms
i have called you son
ive made amends
between father and son
or if you havent one
rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there is a design
to what i did and said

rest in my arms
sleep in my bed
there is a design 

I say yes, but many disagree... Some scripture to refer to:

John 18:
36. Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

37. "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

Matthew 26:59-64
59. The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death.

60. But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two came forward

61. and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"

62. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

63. But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

64. "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.
--------------------
"Yes it is as you say." They said "tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.

He said He was the Son of God
--------------------
And in Mark 14:
57. Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him:

58. "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.'"

59. Yet even then their testimony did not agree.

60. Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

63The high priest tore his clothes. "Why do we need any more witnesses?" he asked.

64"You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?"
-------------

For them to call it "Blasphemy" He would have to delcare Himself Divine.

------------

Luke 22:
70. They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?"

He replied, "You are right in saying I am."
 

Also I'd like to state this once again: there is a blatant difference between Faith and what we call "Blind Faith." Faith, according to American Heritage dictionary, and defined within Christianity, is "The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will." But Faith does NOT imply the stagnation of beliefs. We are urged to explore our doubts, as this leads to greater Faith.

These quotes are taken entirely from the first chapter:

--------------------------

Some excerps taken from the book "The Problem of Pain" (written in 1940.) "'If God were good, He would wish to make His creatures perfectly happy, and if God were almighty He would be able to do what He wished. But the creatures are not happy. Therefore God lacks either goodness, or power, or both.' This is the problem of pain, in its simplest form. The possibility of answering it depends on showing that the terms 'good' and 'almighty', and perhaps also the term 'happy', are equivocal: for it must be admitted from the outset that if the popular meanings attached to these words are the best, or only possible, meanings, then the argument is unaswerable...

----------------

"[God's] Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to Him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to His power. If you choose to say 'God can give a creature free will and at the same time withold free will from it', you have not succeeded in saying anything about God: meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them the two other words 'God can'. It remains true that all things are possible with God: the intrinsic impossibilities are not things but nonentities. It is no more possbile for God than for the weakest of His creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because His power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God. [I love that line.]

---------------------------

"The inexorable 'laws of Nature' which operate in defiance of human suffering or desert, which are not turned aside by prayer, seem, at first sight, to furnish a strong argument against the goodness and power of God. I am going to submit that not even Omnipotence could create a society of free souls without at the same time creating a relatively independent and 'inexorable' Nature.

"There is no reason to suppose that self-consciousness, the recognition of a creature by itself as a 'self', can exist except in contrast with an 'other', a something which is not the self. It is against an environment and preferable a social environment, and environment of other selves, that the awareness of Myself stands out. This would raise a difficulty about the consciousness of God if we were mere theists: being Christians, we learn from the doctrine of the Blessed Trinity that something analogous to 'society' exists within the Divine being from all eternity - that God is Love, not merely in the sense of being the Platonic form of love, but because, within Him, the concrete reciprocities of love exist before all the worlds and are thence derived to the creatures.

"Again, the freedom of a creature must mean freedom to choose: and choice implies the existence of things to choose between. A creature with no environment would have no choices to make: so that freedom, like self-consciousness (if they are not, indeed, the same thing), again demands the presence to the self of something other than the self.

"The minimum condition of self-consciousness and freedom, then, would be that the creature should apprehend God and, therefore, itself as distinct from God. It is possible that such creatures exist, aware of God and themselves, but of no fellow-creatures. If so, their freedom is simply that of making a single naked choice-of loving God more than the self or the self more than God. But a life so reduced to essentials is not imaginable to us. As soon as we attempt to introduce the mutual knowledge of fellow-creatures we run up against the necessity of 'Nature'.

"People often talk as if nothing were easier than for two naked minds to 'meet' or become aware of each other. But I see no possibility of their doing so except in a common medium which forms their 'external world' or environment. Even our vague attempt to imagine such a meeting between disembodied spirits usually slips in surreptitioulsy the idea of, at least, a common space and time, to give the co- in co-existence a meaning: and space and time are already an environment. But more than this is required. If your thoughts and passions were directly present to me, like my own, without any mark of externality or otherness, how should I distinguish them from mine? And what thoughts or passions could we begin to have without objects to think and feel about? Nay, could I even begin to have the conception of 'external' and 'other' unless I had experience of an 'external world'?

"You may reply, as a Christian, that God (and Satan) do, in fact, affect my consciousness in this direct way without signs of 'externality'. Yes: and the result is that most people remain ignorant of the existence of both. [!!] We may therefore suppose that if human souls affected one another directly and immaterially, it would be a rare triumph of faith and insight for any one of them to believe in the existence of the others. It would be harder for me to know my neighbour under such conditions than it now is for me to know God: for in recognising the impact of God upon me I am now helped by things that reach me through the external world, such as the tradition of the Church, Holy Scripture, and the conversation of religious friends. What we need for human society is exactly what we have - a neutral something, neither you nor I, which we can both manipulate so as to make signs to each other. I can talk to you because we can both set up sound-waves in the common air between us. Matter, which keeps souls apart, also brings them together. It enables each of us to have an 'outside' as well as an 'inside', so that what are acts of will and thought for you are noises and glances for me; you are enabled not only to be but to appear: and hence I have the pleasure of making your acquaintence.

"Society, then, implies a common field or 'world' in which its members meet. If there is an angelic society, as Christians have usually believed, then the angels also must have such a world or field; something which is to them as 'matter' (in the modern, not the scholastic sense) is to us.

------------------

"We can, perhaps, conceive of a world in which God corrected the results of this abuse of free wil by His creatures at every moment: so that a wooden beam became soft as grass when it was used as a weapon, and the air refused to obey me if I attempted to set up in it the sound-waves that carry lies or insults. But such a world would be one in which wrong actions were impossible, and in which, therefore, freedom of the will would be void; nay, if the principle were carried out to its logical conclusion, evil thoughts would be impossible, for the cerebral matter which we use in thinking would refuse its task when we attempted to frame them. All matter in the neighbourhood of a wicked man would be liable to undergo unpredictable alterations. That God can and does, onoccasions, modify the behaviour of matter and produce what we call miracles, is a part of Christian faith; but the very conception of a common, and therefore stable, world, demands that these occasions should be extremely rare.

------------------

"And that brings us to our next subject - the Divine Goodness. Nothing so far has been said of this, and no answer attempted to the objection that if the universe must, from the outset, admit the possibility of suffering, then absolute goodness would have left the universe uncreated. And I must warn the reader that I shall not attempt to prove that to create was better than not to create: I am aware of no human scales in which such a portentous question can be weighed... Our design is a less formidable one: it is onlyto discover how, perceiving a suffering world, and being assured, on quite different grounds, that God is good, we are to conceive that goodness and that suffering without contradiction."

------------------

whew!

"We have inoculated the world with a mild form of Christianity so that it is now proof against the real thing."

Indeed, this is what the Catholic Church did to me...

The speaker goes on to say:
" For some of us, the concept of salvation has been reduced to sitting in front of a god who is a judge who stamps a legal document that says 'Now you can go to heaven' with very little focus on what it means to be a member of the Kingdom of God here and now."

Another statement was along the lines of something Rick Warren is quoted in saying that

"...we talk about being the hands and feet of Jesus, but sometimes we come across as just a big mouth. And we're really great with our words, but what people read and what people see and smell is often so different, and therefore it doesn't MATTER WHAT WE ARE SAYING."

I am guilty of such an accusation... I spend most of my time talking... but I do still believe open discussion is important...

Thoughts?

I just finished watchin Ghost in the machine 2 and this conversation between the two main characters as they were flying over the dystopian remains of a once great city stuck out in my mind.

What are your thoughts on these statement? 

I believe the title of this idea is an idea that is attributed to Richard Dawkins... can anyone confirm?

The early Christians suffered horrible persecutions, that is well known... death threats, torture, and death itself... however, compare the unblinking faith these Christians had to those alive today:

We have endless doubt without immediate answers.  We have the noises and distractions of the modern world.  We have the tainted history of our belief system.  We have television, the media, cell phones, electricity, the endless barrage of the physical overpowering the emotional, the effects of capitalism/globalization. Fundamentalists within every religion  tainting the meaning of our faith... the list goes on...

My question is this... Is it more debasing to Christian beliefs to face these contemporary attack trying to prove how the world lacks God and Love than it was to face the physical threats of old?  Consider as well the faith was fresh and untainted at that time... 

One of my favorite albums, not only because it plays to my musical ADD personality in its genre mashing, almost fully orchestrated glory, but because it is so masterfully crafted.  It is one of the few albums I consider perfect.  Those who say it is Mr. Bungle's most "normal" album, is that the same as saying it is not the best?  allmusic says this of the genre:

"Four years after Disco Volante, Mr. Bungle returns with California, which immediately distinguishes itself from its predecessors -- it's probably their most heavily orchestrated record to date and their most melodic overall, as well as the least dependent on rock styles.  That's certainly not to imply that this is a tame or immediately accessible record, nor that Mr. Bungle has suddenly gone sane. There is a stronger lounge-music orientation to the group's trademark rapid-fire genre-hopping; we hear more pop, swing, rockabilly, country & western, bossa nova, Hawaiian and Middle Eastern music, jazz, Zappa-esque doo wop, arty funk, post-rock, space-age pop, spaghetti-Western music, warped circus melodies, and even dramatic pseudo-new age, plus just a smidgen of heavy metal."

Wikipedia classifies Mr. Bungle as experimental rock/ avant-garde metal.  Do you feel these are accurate? 

I have also heard it is the album of theirs that Mike Patton had most of the hand in creating.  He has often stated that his lyrics are chosen for their relevance to the music and not to the content of the song, but then why do they work so well?  For example(I've done the Latin translations to the best of my knowledge [not that I know latin, but from translators and latin-english dictionaries)  please correct me if I'm wrong):

"Retrovertigo"

Before you advertise
All the fame is implied
With no fortune unseen
Sell the rights
To your blight
Time-machine

While I'm dulled by excess
And a cynic at best
My art imitates crime
Paid for by
The allies
So invest

Now I'm finding truth is a ruin
Nauseous end that nobody is pursuing
Staring into glassy eyes
Mesmerized
There's a vintage thirst returning
But I'm sheltered by my channel-surfing
Every famine virtual
Retrovertigo

A tribute to false memories
With conviction
Cheap imitation
Is it fashion or disease?
Post-ironic
Remains a mouth to feed

Sell the rights
To your blight
And you'll eat

Now I'm finding truth is a ruin
Nauseous end that nobody is pursuing
Staring into glassy eyes
Mesmerized
See the vintage robot wearied
Then awakened by revision theories
Every famine virtual
Retrovertigo
 

And 

"None of Them Knew They Were Robots":

Mendel's machines replicate in the night
In the black iron prison of St. Augustine's light
He's paying the bills and they're doing him proud
They can float their burnt offerings on assembler clouds

With omega point in the sight
The new Franklins fly their kites
And the post modern empire is ended tonight

From history
The flood of counterfeits released
The black cloud
Reductionism and the beast
Automatons gather all the pieces
So the world may be increased
In simulation jubilation
For the deceased...

Spray-on clothes and diamond jaws
Wrinkles smoothed by nanoclaws

With my machines I can dispatch you
From this world without a trace
Our nostalgia ghosts are ready to take your place

Content-shifting shopping malls
Gasoline trees and walk-through walls

None of them knew, none of them knew...

I feel the grey goo boiling my blood
As I watch the dead rise up out of the earth
Try to hide from the lies as they all come true

Deus absconditus (hidden, concealed god)
Deus nullus Deus (god not any, no, none god)
Deus nisi deus (godif not, unless, except [after questions and negatives]god)

I feel the grey goo boiling my blood
As the fenris wolf slowly bites through his chain
Try to hide the myth as it becomes a man

None of them knew, none of them knew
they were robots

Buying an X or an O
In state craft tic tac toe
Cats game for Joe Blow

Post industrial bliss
A binary hug or kiss
Can be wrung from utility mist

They stole the great arcanum
The secret fire
Moloch found his gold
For the new empire
Once again
The necrophage becomes saint

Lindy hop around the truth
Jump back wolf pack attack
Swingin' up there in the noose
Slap back white shark attack
Lindy hop around the truth
Jump back wolf pack attack
Swingin' up there in the noose
Slap back white shark attack

Phased array diffraction nets
From full-wall paint-on TV sets
Migratory home sublets
And time shared diamond fiber sets

Recombinant logos keys
Bitic Qabalistic trees

Deus absconditus (hidden, concealed god)
Deus nullus deus (god not any, no, none god)
Deus nisi deus (ifgod not, unless, except [after questions and negatives]god)

I feel the grey goo boiling my blood
As leviathan and his bugs freeze the sea
Try to save the world by immolating myself

From history
The flood of counterfeits released
The black cloud
The resurrection of the deceased
Automatons gather all the pieces
So the world may be increased
In simulation jubilation
For the builders
Of the body of the beast

-------------------------------------

Is there not definitive subject matter within the lyrics?  Why do some say the lyrics do not fit the song?  

Mike Patton has also stated that vocals are often put to use as an instrument, and are used to add to the music, not to make a point.  (I think he was discussing Fantomas in this interview, though...)

This is an actual scam that one of my friends saw on a televangelist spot on late night tv in south florida... it was promising financial "salvation" and prosperity in the name of Jesus, so long as you sent the self proclaimed prophet "reverend peter popoff" an amount of his choosing (that he says the Holy Spirit told him to ask you for.) How it works is he sends you some of his "miracle water" and after drinking it, you are to send him a certain amount of money and to write your prayers on the check, and you will miraculously receive thousands of dollars, or a house, or a boat, or something like that... my friend called it joking around, and a week later, sure enough, his "miracle water" envelope showed up, along with his free bonus gift of a prayer ribbon that would answer all your prayers as long as you sent in $15. Obviously he ignored it, made plenty of jokes about the "Jesus Water" and that was that. A year later, he received the following wonderful piece of literature.

----------------

THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVED BEYOND WHAT ANYONE COULD THINK!

From: The Reverend Peter Popoff
People United For Christ
PO Box 760
Upland, CA 91785-0760

Dear __NAME__,
In Tampa, the Lord "positioned YOU for YOUR Harvest". The MIRACLE-WORKING POWER of the Holy Spirit visited us in such a blessed and unique way. I have included a couple of pictures from the miracle crusade in Tampa.


Please look at them and rejoice with me. Look what the Lord just did! YOU can receive that same miracle touch, even NOW!
I've received letters from others who came ... that they can STILL feel His PRESENCE in their lives! God was so good. My Brother, that same ANOINTING is still flowing. Yes, STILL flowing!

I've enclosed a packet of Holy Green Anointing Oil that I have personally prayed over. It contains that SAME miracle ­working POWER and anointing that we experienced in Tampa. Even right now, as I am writing this letter, I feel that same anointing so strongly for YOU! GET READY TO RECEIVE! This is YOUR time. This is YOUR season -- to receive your miracle.
I must give you 2 directives from God: FIRST is to tell you exactly how to use this oil to anoint ...


For reasons of safety, I must ask you to keep secret what I am going to share with you now.
>>
[Theres a shocker]

[NO I am not making this up]

[who is he, john edwards?]

>
>>>

No wonder Christianity has such a bad name in our society... people see more crap like this than any other representation...

Also, please cite the translation of the Bible you are using, I prefer NIV, that is what I will be referring to...