Transcript: Diversity in itself, I think, is not valuable. I like to point out that there’s no particular reason for somebody to have admitted me to a college because I happen to be left-handed and have blond hair and blue eyes, and that could add to the diversity at some colleges. The importance of diversity is to the extent that there are aspects of people’s backgrounds – whether it be racial or socio-economic, and aspects of people’s perspectives on life . . . so religious diversity – that add to the educational enterprise. So if I go to school and I’m surrounded by people who are like me, I’m going to learn less than if I’m surrounded by people who challenge me intellectually, who come from backgrounds that I wouldn’t otherwise be able to actually know firsthand. That’s gonna make a huge difference in my education. Now when I say that, I have to say that I’ve experienced it as well. My education has been as rich as it has as much by the people I’ve come in contact with who have come from worlds that are so foreign to my own as it is by the wonderful teachers that I’ve had. And my own education . . . The reason my father was such an inspiration to me is he was so different from everyone else . . . than every other adult I had ever met in rural New York.

Recorded on: 7/3/07

Question: Collectively, what should we be doing?

Transcript: Globally I think we are not taking advantage of our ability to create multination, multilateral alliances. I think even on a smaller scale than nations, we’re not doing enough to combat global warming. We’re not doing enough to educate people who are incredibly talented in this world. We’re not doing enough to deliver healthcare to infants, and children, and women who are, again, wanting to be enterprising around the world. Those are the issues that we’re not addressing. But there’s one underlying cause of our not addressing that, I believe; which is not taking advantage of how we can come together despite our differences, and deliberate and decide to do good. We need more institutions that bring us together in civil but robust ways to do good in the world.

Question: What should America be doing?

Transcript: America as a great constitutional democracy should be at the center of the democracies of the world. Working multilaterally to bring more peace, and democracy, and economic well being to the group of democracies that already agree that democracy is a good thing; and to those non-democratic countries, where we can act multilaterally rather than unilaterally, we’re not doing that. We’re in a deep hole in Iraq right now. I don’t have the formula for diggings us out of it; but when you’re in a deep hole, you don’t keep digging.

Question: What should we be doing as individuals?

Transcript: Individually, we should each use our talents to ally with other people; not necessarily people, and ideally not people who are just like us; but to ally with other people who do some good in the world. That means . . . whether we should be educating kids who otherwise wouldn’t get education. We should be figuring out ways of decreasing carbon emissions if that’s what we have the talent and the opportunity to do. We should be delivering healthcare to people not as individuals, but as collectivities; and not depending too much on our government for doing it. Because a dependent citizenry is asking for trouble. We have to take initiatives all over. And I would say first and foremost, we have to begin locally. That is, the idea that we would know how to save the world without doing some good in our own community is a form of hubris. And it’s a form of hubris that’s brought a lot of damage to the world.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Transcript: We should all be asking ourselves, “How are we going to do the next good thing that we can do? How are we going to do it? Who are we going to ally ourselves with? How are we going to reach out to other people who we are not now aligned with?” Because if we don’t broaden our alliances . . . and if we can’t deliberate with people who disagree with us, we’re not gonna make progress. And if we can, we’re gonna make great progress on all the issues. On immigration, on education. We need to have those kinds of very thoughtful alliances.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Question:
Are you generally optimistic or pessimistic about the way the world is headed?

Transcript: I am an optimist by nature. I would call myself a pragmatic optimist. And I am pessimistic today, right now, about the way the world is headed in the very near future. I see no good way forward in Iraq. I see a lot of opportunity that was open in this country being closed. I see a lot of the rule of law being violated. So I’m not optimistic about the near term; but I am optimistic about the future because we are a great constitutional democracy, and the world looks at us as a great constitutional democracy. And we have as much reason as the world to be disappointed in what’s happening today, but we’ll turn it around. I know we will.

Question: How do you think this age will be remembered?

Transcript: Well I think the late 20th century will be remembered as the global, you know, as a kind of global awakening. By that I mean since that there’s no longer a bipolar system of the, you know, of two great powers; but a sense that the United States – great, powerful country that it is – has to be a part . . . and has learned the hard way that it has to be part of a larger society of nations. The early 21st century, which we’re just beginning, I think it’s too soon to say how we’ll be remembered.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Question:When you read the newspaper or watch the news, what questions stand out for you?

Transcript: The big issues that stand out for me when I read the newspaper are the war in Iraq, the war in Iraq, and the war in Iraq. Those are the top three. After that, I think there’s global warming. There’s corruption and the violation of the rule of law. There’s not a lot of good news when I read the newspaper.

Question: What should be the big issues of the 2008 presidential election?

Transcript: Well I think the big issues that should be are probably the big issues that will be. I think there’s no doubt that the war in Iraq is an issue. I think it would be a shame if that became the only issue. I think the idea of equal opportunity in this country has to be an issue in this country. It’s . . . We’re a country of immigrants. It’s what we stand for, is being open and giving people who are hard working and talented opportunity. So I think the issues are, you know . . . ought to be our stance toward the rest of the world, education for our own people, and opportunity . . . jobs.

Question: What should the candidates be saying about education?

Transcript: I think the candidates should be saying that this is a country that has prided itself . . . The American dream is a dream of opportunity for all young people. And the only way we can make good that dream is to make great secondary and elementary education available for all our young people. And we have to support and reform our public school system.

Question: How does the immigration debate affect higher education?

Transcript: America is a country of immigrants. Most Americans can’t trace their roots back to the founding. Immigrants have made this country as great as it is. Immigration is the great engine of progress in this country tied to the freedom . . . the Constitutional freedoms that this country gives all of its citizens. So it is a tragedy, in my mind, that Republicans and Democrats couldn’t come together on a compromise on immigration recently. It is, to me, an absolute necessity that we continue to find a way of not only allowing, but welcoming immigrants into this country.

Recorded on: 7/2/07

Question: What forces have shaped humanity most?

Transcript: So the forces that have shaped where we are today as humans go way beyond us and our intelligence. Anyone who sees the forces today at work in the world – whether they be global warming, or the tsunami, or Hurricane Katrina – has to recognize that we are but specks in the universe. That said, anyone who looks at global warming or tsunami or Hurricane Katrina has to realize that those weren’t purely natural disasters. Take Hurricane Katrina. We could have prevented that. We human beings, as small as we are in the universe . . . in our universe . . . in our part of the universe, we could’ve made a difference. Take global warming. I hope we will make a difference. That’s why as President of the University of Pennsylvania, I’ve committed ourselves to having a plan in a couple of years’ time to become carbon neutral, and that we’re . . . 30% of our energy is wind power. So the forces are enormous in the universe. And scientists as well as humanists are hard at work understanding them. And we should never kid ourselves that we’re more than specks in the universe. But we should never let down ourselves in not doing what we can do to make a difference.

Question: What event or period of history had a profound impact on who we are?

Transcript: Oh there are many seminal moments of history that made a profound impact on where we are today. So I would look – depending on how far back in history. If we go far back in my field, you have to look at Greece and democracy. You know, Greek democracy. It’s amazing to me that the Greeks have the civilization that discovered democracy and really elevated human beings, in some sense, to the center of our universe, right? With all kinds of mistakes made about science and biology along, you know, the way. But that was . . . We owe a lot to the Greeks. The Roman Empire was a great lesson in both human greatness and human hubris. Those are two great, positive moments in human history. And then if you fast forward, I would say the enlightenment and putting reason over . . . you know, giving reason more of a role than it has in human history, but showing how important human thinking is. Very important. And then in the 20th century, I look to, you know, both the ________, you know, Stalinism, Maoism and the Holocaust as three enormous, disastrous episodes in human history that we’re still . . . we still have to learn from.

Question: What forces have shaped our education system?

Transcript: Where we are today in education has been shaped, I think, overwhelmingly by enlightenment philosophy that human beings are distinctively thinking animals. And that enlightenment philosophy is – whether you’re a critic of it or a supporter of it – absolutely essential to understand the educational project that we have. I also think that in this country, the United States, John Dewey has had a huge influence on American education. And the founder of Penn, Benjamin Franklin, has had a huge influence on education. And the most important influence that I would point to is understanding the connection between knowledge and practice; knowing that ultimately for us as human beings, we strive to put knowledge into practice. And that’s a very important part of why governments are as supportive of education as they are. And when they’re not supportive, why they’re undermining their own society by not supporting education. Because ultimately, without a thinking people, you’re not gonna have a productive people. And ultimately, without a thinking people, you’re not gonna have a democratic people.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Question: Do you have a personal philosophy?

Transcript: I do have a personal philosophy. And I couldn’t describe it very briefly because that’s why I write books. My books are, in part, an extension of my personal philosophy. But if you emphasize the personal part of it, I can put it very briefly. I believe that every human being not only has a dignity, but has a mission to accomplish. And it’s not a pre-ordained mission. The reason we were given brains is we have to figure it out for ourselves. And we can’t figure it out once and for all. One of the people who inspired me, John Rawls, has written about a life plan. I don’t believe that everybody has a life plan. I believe that you have to seize opportunities. And you always have to know what your passions are, because you can’t do anything great without passion.

Question: Which philosopher really gets it?

Transcript: No. I think that if you believe that there’s one philosopher living or dead who gets it, and encompasses everything, you’re an intellectual slave to somebody else. There are many philosophers whom I’ve learned a tremendous amount from. And I teach my students that they should use books. They shouldn’t adore them. In that way I’m sort of like Ralph Waldo Emerson. A book is there for us to just . . . not to treasure, but to use to be inspired by; but not to become a slave to. And I believe that whether it’s about . . . I believe that about religion as well. I am, in some ways I think, a deeply religious person; but I don’t follow . . . I mean I’m Jewish by culture and by religious training; but I don’t follow any particular religion. I mean even though I identify probably as being Jewish.

Question: Do religion or faith inform your worldview?

Transcript: Well being Jewish has played tremendously into my world view; but I dare say how many million Jews there are in the world, there are – or at least should be – that many million different world views in the world. And that’s part of my identity as being Jewish; is being taught that each of us is God’s children and is a child of God. And I don’t even know what I mean by God, to tell you the truth. I don’t think I’ve ever said that before; but it’s true. I don’t know. It’s a spirituality that I do have. I can encapsulate it in the dignity of human beings. It’s made a big difference in my life. It’s my early, moral education was all in liberal Judaism; but I was taught that when we had a ________, the _______ was about the liberation of the Jews from the land of Egypt; but it was a story that could be retold that should inspire us all to liberate other people from their slavery; and to make sure that the people around us who are our fellow human beings weren’t left in oppression. That, to me . . . I mean it’s . . . It’s so deep in my soul that . . . And I believe it’s a universalist message. I don’t believe it specific to being Jewish.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Transcript: When I went to South Africa to give a lecture right after Nelson Mandela had spoken, I was beyond inspired. And let me just give you one example of . . . Everyone knows why Nelson Mandela is inspiring. You know, having spent so many years in jail, and then having gone on to heal a country that many people thought was beyond healing. But in the audience at Mandela’s speech were many people who were supporters of the government that jailed him, and perhaps even some of his actual . . . some of the people who were actually running the government who had jailed him. And one person who asked a question to Mandela said, “How can you speak with so little bitterness to the people who are responsible for your oppression?” He said, “I would not wish what happened to me and my people on any single human being.” That’s an inspiration, and it tells me that the things that I write and teach about; the way in which I dedicated my own life to helping other people and the cause of social justice is not idealistic. It’s practical. If somebody like Mandela can do it, surely I – who had grown up with far less oppression than he has – have a responsibility to do it.

Question: What is the balance you’ve struck between business and education?

Trancsript: As a president? Education is not a business. It’s a profession. It’s a calling. But I have to be very savvy as a businesswoman in running an institution who’s budget is 4.4 billion dollars a year, and whose endowment is now over six billion dollars a year. It’s the means to which the end of great education is directed. So I spend a good deal of my time and some of my concern making sure our health system is doing well financially. And I’m happy to say it’s doing fabulously well financially. And I don’t see it as a tradeoff between business and education. To put it very simply, business is a means to pursuing great ends.

Question: Are there unique challenges a woman faces in this position?

Transcript: Oh I don’t think there is anything that I as a woman face as a university president that a man wouldn’t face, except the following. (Laughter) I am – whether I like it or not, and I like it – a role model to lots of young women. I hope not to too many because I don’t think this is a job that too many people should aspire to do. But being a role model is a wonderful thing. And I think because I’m a woman, and because I’m – as a woman – not very common to see as a CEO or as a president, I stand out. And I think that’s the main . . . the main difference. I mean I’m an optimist, so I see the positive. I’m sure there are people who look at me and say, “How could she be the President of the University of Pennsylvania?” But I take that as a compliment.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Question: What impact does your work have on the world?

Transcript: Well if it has a little impact on the world, I’ll be very pleased. I guess I’d have to start with Penn because my work is multiplied a thousand times because of the students who go out from Penn and do great work; and the faculty who are great scholars and teachers; and the faculty who are doctors who are saving people’s lives; the faculty who are nurses who are at the forefront of nursing. And as I think, you know, there is a great, great shortage of nurses in this world. So the biggest impact I’ve had is in three years as Penn’s president. And I hope that will just continue.

Prior to that, I think it was because of my scholarship and teaching on social justice, and in particular I helped to revive the tradition of showing how important education is to democracy when I wrote “Democratic Education”. And I was particularly delighted when it was reviewed as the best book perhaps since John Dewey’s “Democracy and Education”. And that’s a book that is taught in introductory courses in both democratic theory and education. And then I went on to write and to teach a lot about how important deliberation is in democracy. And I think I’ve had an impact there as an antidote to what we called “sound bite democracy”, an antidote to end civility in democratic societies. And what’s the antidote? The antidote is to have more opportunities, more institutions that bring diverse people together to deliberate about hard problems; and to be able to live with their disagreements in a civil way. So that’s another small . . .

Question: What is the relationship between education and democracy?

Transcript: Okay. In a nutshell, there’s nothing more important to the future of democracy than education. It is the lifeblood of democracy. And Thomas Jefferson was right. If you don’t have an educated people, you can’t keep a democracy. And when Franklin was asked at the end of the Constitutional Convention by a woman, “Tell me doctor. Do we have a monarchy or a republic?” And he said, “A republic, if you can keep it.” The answer to whether you can keep it is whether we will be successful in educating our population.

Question: How should citizens be educated?

Transcript: Well they should be educated broadly. They should . . . And what that means is they should know enough about the world in which they live to be able to see themselves as empowered citizens. Now I think in the 21st century that is a very tall order. It means to be a leader – a civic leader. You have to know something very well. You have to be a specialist in something. You can’t be a dilettante. But you also have to be broadly educated. You can’t just be a specialist. So in order to be a good citizen and know what it is that it would take to hold your government accountable, you’ve gotta know some economics. You’ve gotta know some political science. You’ve gotta know some arts and culture. You’ve gotta know something about technology and science. It’s a huge, tall order; but the reason it’s possible is it’s the joy of most people’s lives to be able to be lifelong learners.

Question: What is your legacy?

Transcript: It’s too early to describe my legacy. When I was inaugurated as president, it felt like I was at my funeral because I was hearing all of these what could have been eulogies. So it’s a little too early to tell what my legacy is. But to the extent that being president of Penn was, as I’ve described it, a dream I’ve never had come true, my legacy is to take the tradition of political philosophy, which is always . . . from Plato, through John Stuart Mill, through contemporary political philosophers, of whom I am one . . . to take that tradition and show its relevance to the contemporary world. Show why thinking and living a life of social justice is absolutely critical to the future of humankind. And then not only showing that by one’s teaching and research, but putting it into practice. So showing how a great university can contribute to its community; showing how a great university can launch people from every background and every country in the world into leadership positions; and showing how we can actually be globally engaged and make a difference in the environment, for example.

Question:What is the biggest challenge your field faces?

Transcript: The biggest challenge we face is support from the larger society. nd support in many ways . . . some indirect. Supporting elementary and secondary education – public education in this country is absolutely essential. Supporting science and research is a very direct kind of support, and that we’re extraordinarily dependent on. The government is the single biggest contributor to the science and technology engine that higher education represents. And then the third biggest challenge is how we are going to actually become more accessible to talented kids in our society and the world over who can’t afford higher education. I have an answer to that, and Penn institutionalized the answer to that, which is all of our financial aid is based on need. We do not give scholarships to compete for getting students who otherwise could afford to come. So we put all of our resources into financial aid. That’s a huge challenge for us moving forward, but it’s one that’s very worthy.

Question: What are you doing to address these issues?

Transcript: You know universities are engaged in higher education. And higher education is dependent on elementary and secondary education. We can’t change our social mission; but we at Penn believe we have to do our part in our community in elementary and secondary schools. So we run a great K-8 school called The Penn Alexander School. It’s a public school. We subsidize it, but it’s entirely public. And it is overwhelmingly minority and overwhelmingly low income. And these kids all go to magnet high schools. They all become high achievers. On top of that, I’m starting a new public, magnet, international high school in West Philadelphia. And that’s . . . it’s not altruism on our part. It’s the right thing to do, but it’s gonna help us at Penn at the same time as it adds a great public high school to West Philadelphia. So I think we have to do a lot . . . a lot more than we’re doing.

Question: What is the importance of diversity in higher education?

Transcript: Diversity in itself, I think, is not valuable. I like to point out that there’s no particular reason for somebody to have admitted me to a college because I happen to be left-handed and have blond hair and blue eyes, and that could add to the diversity at some colleges. The importance of diversity is to the extent that there are aspects of people’s backgrounds – whether it be racial or socio-economic, and aspects of people’s perspectives on life . . . so religious diversity – that add to the educational enterprise. So if I go to school and I’m surrounded by people who are like me, I’m going to learn less than if I’m surrounded by people who challenge me intellectually, who come from backgrounds that I wouldn’t otherwise be able to actually know firsthand. That’s gonna make a huge difference in my education. Now when I say that, I have to say that I’ve experienced it as well. My education has been as rich as it has as much by the people I’ve come in contact with who have come from worlds that are so foreign to my own as it is by the wonderful teachers that I’ve had. And my own education . . . The reason my father was such an inspiration to me is he was so different from everyone else . . . than every other adult I had ever met in rural New York.

Recorded on: 7/5/07

Question: Beyond a simple title, how would you describe what you do for a living?

Transcript: So I’m President of the University of Pennsylvania. And I run a university that I’m very proud of that is not only on the forefront of research and teaching, and has 12 professional schools in arts and sciences all on one beautiful campus; but I’m also the head of a university that’s the largest private employer in Philadelphia. Second only to the government, we’re the largest employer. And I do it for so many reasons. It’s everything I believe in rolled into one. It enables me to further education, and I think there is nothing more important to the 21st century than higher education. It enables me to give opportunities to the best and the brightest kids from low and middle income families from all over the world. This year we admitted 13½% international students to come. Last year we started a new scholarship policy that eliminated loans for kids from American families who have incomes of under $60,000, and we doubled the number of those kids that can. It enables me to create economic opportunities in Philadelphia, where in China and India it enables me to also engage globally. So there’s almost no limit; but the resources we have to what we can do as a great university. So I’m very privileged. I’m very . . . it’s a culmination of a lot of what I believe in.

Question: What is the struggle in what you do?

Transcript: Well I wouldn’t call it a struggle of being a president. I’d say there are endless challenges to being a president of a large research university. Everything from how you create more opportunities for people against the backdrop of increasing inequality in this country such that kids from low and middle income families really don’t have the same opportunities as kids from affluent families. And that concerns me a lot. There’s the fact, and it is a fact, that government in Washington doesn’t really understand higher ed . . . what our mission is. And so there’s the threat of putting a standardized test on all of higher education, which would really move us backwards rather than forward. And then there’s the challenge of raising money to do more and more research. And we have a hospital system and a medical school that’s doing, you know, life-saving, life-enhancing research. And it’s very resource intensive. So there’s the challenge of arguing as well as . . . for more funds from Washington as well as raising more money. And then there’s the challenge of becoming more global, which I think is a great opportunity; but it is a challenge as well.

Question: What does it take to be a successful university president?

Transcript: It takes everything you have and then some. I think I . . . You know before multitasking was a word, I think I was a multitasker. And I think all successful presidents of universities multitask. We have constituencies that range from wonderful students – undergraduates as well as graduate and professional students – to faculty and alumni, and we have to be available to all of ‘em. So you have to love people; be able to be a visionary; articulate your vision; know how to implement it; know how to get all those constituents to not think they’re following you, but actually that they’re with you. Because faculty are not followers. Faculty are very autonomous and independent researchers and teachers, and they have to share my vision. And that’s why one of the first things I did as president in my inaugural was announce a compact. It’s a social compact we called the “Penn Compact”, and it’s our vision for moving ahead. It says we’re going to increase access. We’re going to integrate knowledge across domains so we can address social problems. And we’re going to engage locally and globally. And that’s our vision. We have lots of ways of putting it into effect. And without that, and without the buy-in to that, I couldn’t be successful.

Question: What are you best known for?

Transcript: Oh I don’t know what I’m best known for. I think the Compact is the overarching theme that is attached to my presidency at Penn. And I think it’s part of what I’m known for, and I . . . You know one of the reasons I like it is that I’m a political philosopher. And when I came to the presidency, I thought, “What is it about who I am as a person, and what I am as a scholar and teacher, that can make a difference at Penn?” And it struck me that there’s a great social contract tradition in political philosophy from John Locke – whom the founding fathers were inspired by – to John Rawls, who was one of my teachers at Harvard. And if I could use that in a way that resonates in a university, we could have the kind of contract . . . the social contract which drove us forward. We never entirely realize it, but we always know what we were doing and why. And so I guess it is a projection of my core convictions onto a much larger stage than I could have ever had as a scholar and a teacher.

Recorded on: 7/2/07

Question: Where are you from and how has that shaped you?

Transcript: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, and I grew up in a small town – Monroe, New York. I’m very proud of my roots in Brooklyn. And I grew up in a small town that, even though it was only an hour north of New York City, seemed like middle America. I think it shaped me. Well first of all, I think it’s made me understand a cross-section of people and their problems that it’s very hard to get out of books. And the fact that my parents were not native to Monroe – my father wasn’t a native American, he was born in Germany – has made me particularly sensitive to the whole project of integration in the United States, and also to just generally the issue of social justice.

Question:Who was your greatest influence when you were young?

Transcript: My main influences were first and foremost my parents. My father escaped Nazi Germany. The youngest of five children, and he got his whole family out early in 1934. He lived in India for fourteen years, started a business there. Basically he was a hero to me. And my mother was a child of the Depression and wanted to be a teacher and couldn’t. And I think partly for that reason, unbeknownst to me as a child, I always wanted to be a teacher. So my parents were bigger influences on me than any group of people combined.

Question: When did education spark your interest?

Transcript: When I was in kindergarten I wanted to be a kindergarten teacher. And when I was in high school I wanted to be a high school teacher. And sure enough, when I was in college, I wanted to be a college teacher. And I guess even though I’m sure I would have been motivated to learn because of my parents, I really got the opportunities to become an avid mathematician, for example, because of my education. And I was a child of the Sputnik era. So my high school was a high school that was funded because of the Russians. Because “The Russians were coming! The Russians were coming!” and we were gonna compete with them. And I was really admiring, as well as critical of some things in high school, such as the way Civics was thought. But I was admiring the fact that this nation funded education for everybody. So I’ve admired and cared about education since as long as I can remember having memories.

Question: Do you recall a pivotal childhood moment?

Transcript: A pivotal moment in my childhood. Yeah. The pivotal moment in my . . . There were two pivotal moments in my childhood. One was in elementary school when the only other Jewish kid in my elementary school – his name was Andy Goodnik, my name is Amy Gutmann – was threatened to be lynched in the coatroom because he was Jewish. Now that was a pivotal moment of my being very proud of being Jewish. I was always proud of being Jewish, but I never knew how important it was publicly to be proud of that. And I came to his defense. And I mean it was a small thing to do, but it was a pivotal moment for me. It made me realize how much it wasn’t just my father’s background in life that mattered, but it was a very important part of my identity. And it was important to assert it at critical moments. Not obnoxiously, not continually. It wasn’t all of who I was, but it was an important part of who I was. And it was an important part of what I believed, both because I went to Hebrew school my whole childhood, but also because it was connected . . . The kind of religious training I had, which was in _______ Judaism, was part and parcel of my belief in social justice. Not just for Jews. The Exodus is a story I was taught in my belief . . . it’s a story of all people getting liberated. So it was my way of connecting who I was in particular, and a universalist project for freedom for all people. It was a very pivotal moment.

The other pivotal moment was when I got into college and I got a full scholarship to Harvard and Radcliffe. I couldn’t have afforded to go to an Ivy League University. My father had died when I was a junior in high school. We were on Social Security. My mother taught at . . . See now that’s a Freudian slip. She would have loved to have taught. She was a secretary for the principal of my high school. And so I remember her bringing me that envelope after school and opening it. And I had some sense at that time that the world was gonna open to me at that point. And it did.

Recorded on: 7/5/07