Re: Does writing about

Description: Not all White guys are, you know, Bubba Joe six-pack, Kuhn says.

Transcript: Absolutely.  I think it’s always important to speak of generalizations in general instead of saying all generalizations are only true in general.  A third of white guys out there are voting Democratic and have for decades.  But when you understand that when one talks about demographic groups, and you’re talking in general, and you keep it only within that context, I don’t think it’s . . . It’s not only not wrong; it’s true often.  And it certainly grinds against our desire to not, if you will, predefine anybody and not, you know . . . basically not thrust a stereotype onto any one member of a group.  There are still one in 10 African-Americans who vote Republican.  There are still at least 30 to 35 percent of the Hispanics will vote Republican, I predict, in the 2008 presidential race despite the illegal immigration issue.  So yeah, it’s important not to thrust these generalizations onto these different demographic groups.  Not all white guys are, you know, Bubba Joe six-pack.  But I would emphasize that it’s the left that is actually among these White guys actually thrusts stereotypes onto them.  As I emphasize in my book, these men often felt like Archie Bunker.  They often felt like they were defined as Archie Bunker – sort of a bigoted, overweight guy who’s a little bit sexist and a little bit racist.  And the Democrats were like, you know, we’re losing these elections, but we’re doing it for the good fight, you know?  We’re doing it for good reasons.  We’re losing for altruistic reasons.  So it’s okay that we lost, but we did the right thing.  And the problem is that the Democrats looked at their loss of their majority in the last 40 years and they simplified it.  They said well we did the right thing on civil rights, on women’s rights, and later on gay rights.  And if we’re doing the right thing, if we lost the majority it’s okay.  That’s childish.  One, they lost their majority for reasons that pre-date Democrats taking up the Civil Rights Movement.  And there were indications of this as early as 1928.  When Republicans won in 1928, half the South . . . Republicans won half the South in 1928 on civil rights . . . I mean on cultural issues alone by painting the Democratic candidate out of New York as a big city politician against prohibition; a Catholic; against, you know, the values of a Protestant South.  And certainly some of that veered into xenophobia, but it was a great lesson that even the South as not as simple as just some racist block.  It never was, and it certainly isn’t today.  And so when you look back the last 30 or 40 years, the Democrats won . . . simplified how they lost the majority.  And basically it was like I compare it to a marriage.  And when you have marriages sometimes you hear someone describe the breakup.  What you’ll hear at a table when you’re around your friends and one person is describing their breakup, you know you’ll hear basically . . . I’ve heard some of my female friends literally at brunch in the city talk about a breakup, and it’s like, “This guy is a total jerk.”  And they’ll just rant, and men do this as well.  But the problem is the Democratic Party did the same thing.  They blamed the divorce of these men from the Democratic Party solely on these men.  You’re a bigot.  You’re a racist.  You’re sexist.  Some of the pushback of my book is essentially we don’t need these men.  They’re bigots.  They’re racist.  They’re sexist.  They represent an old America.  They’re a lessening number of Americans.  They’re still 36 percent of the voters in the coming general election.  And to many of these men, they were like you know what?  We’re not perfect.  To many of these men . . . But like it’s not all our fault.  In other words the divorce occurred for reasons . . . for mistakes on the left as well.  And it’s important when understanding how you ended one relationship to accept some fault and to look at those mistakes you made, because that’s gonna help you mend that relationship and certainly have your next relationship.  And that’s true for the Democratic Party as well at this critical moment when they can truly build a new majority.  And certainly the danger of a book focused on Hispanics, or men, or women is that you create these like . . . You help enhance these stereotypes.  But I only believe that’s a danger if someone reads a book at a very superficial level and actually doesn’t read the whole thing.  And I think a lot of these books clearly show that clearly while showing what appeals to these men shows the exceptions, and my book does that as well.  So at times clearly demographics matter, and there’s never been a better case of that than the 2008 Democratic primary race which is stunning for how much it breaks down purely on demographic lines.  I emphasize how Hillary Clinton would not have won in New Hampshire or Nevada for example if it was not for white women or the overwhelming support of White women – especially New Hampshire.  Barack Obama would not have won South Carolina if it was not for the overwhelming support of African-Americans.  So people vote in demographics in some sense sometimes.  These white guys have clearly shown that they won’t just vote for white guys.  They said the Democrats have been voting for white guys for a long time and they haven’t done too well.  But what was most stunning about white men and the demographic loss of these men in the last 40 years more than anything was that when I looked into the gender gap; when I took a deeper look and went deeper, I looked at every socio-economic group.  There isn’t anything I missed, whether it was education levels, high school, post college educated; whether it was income levels – those making less than $50,000 of income, more than $200,000, in between.  It didn’t really matter whether it was broke down to regions – South, North, East.  Even sometimes by state, what was clear to me and what was most stunning is that the white male gap transcended every demographic group.  There wasn’t a post college educated white male group that was leaning Democratic.  There wasn’t a family under $30,000 of white male . . . men who were majority leaning Democratic.  Whether it was a margin of 10 percent or a margin of 25 percent, the fact is that the margin transcended region, where you live, suburbs, exurbs, city; and it transcended what state you lived in; and it transcended how much money you made.  And so to see that fact, and to not say what is going on here, what is particular about these men’s outlook on the world that has estranged them from the Democratic Party in recent decades, and therefore undone the Democratic Party . . . to see those facts and not look deeper into them is I think a mistake of political journalism I think over the last 25 years.  It is ridiculous that it took a quarter century for my book to be written.  It should have been written by someone a generation older, and it should have been written, you know, at the end of the Reagan era.  But it wasn’t, and so all I say in my book above all is that the Democrats should take an objective look at how they lost the majority at the very moment when they’re trying to build a new one.

Recorded on: 2/5/08