Re: Where are we?

Description: Josh Lieb, on the politics of integration.

Question: When you read the newspaper or watch the news, what issues stand out for you?

Transcript:     You know I read the sports section first.  I . . . I . . . I . . . I’m . . . I’m a bit cynical in the way of words, and . . . and I do not speak for people I work with.  And I say this as strictly me.  I sometimes feel like rooting for any political cause is, in a way, like rooting for a football team.  You have about as much affect on it, and whoever wins has about as much affect on the . . . whatever happens in the world, or at least in this country.  That’s strictly me speaking for me.  It may be I don’t always feel that way.  I . . . the . . .  The things that bother me about, say, the world today and . . . and politics today . . . and I . . . I can’t . . .  Maybe I would have thought the same 50 years ago.  I mean everybody thinks their age is the worst.  But I . . .  I hate being lied to, and I hate . . .  I feel like there  are so many cheap lies being thrown at us.  I think we are being . . .  I hate being treated like an idiot, and you know our government treats us like an idiot.  It treats us like a child.  And I . . .  I’m not saying, oh, this . . . this administration either.  I . . . I will never forgive Bill Clinton for lying to me.  He . . .  He took me for a chump.  He said, “I didn’t sleep . . .”  Just say you fucked . . .  Just say it.  But he really . . . okay he said it.  He said that sincerely.  Alright, I believe you.  Oh, you know, screw you.  He . . . he really . . . he lied to all of us.  And it . . . it’s like it’s not a big deal.  Yeah, it’s a big deal.  He really . . .  He took us all for chumps.  He thought, “Oh, I can lie to these people.”  And you know you don’t just do that once.  You do it in every occasion you can.  I hate being lied to.  I hate being . . . and . . .  And I think . . .  I think that’s related to the problem of the government treating us like we’re children.  And which, you know, I think they think we’re stupid.  And I think they think we’re children.  And I think we act like we’re children, you know, because we let them do that, you know?  It’s a give and take sort of thing.  But you know the more they treat us like children, the more we act like it, and the more they take away from us.  You know I’m an absolute, you know, freedom of this, freedom of that guy.  I’m . . . I’m very pro-gun.  You know I’m pro-school choice.  I’m crazy, you know?  But I just . . . I . . .  I think we need to be treated like adults.  I think we . . .  Americans, you know, we have these hard won liberties, and we really just sort of have to cling to them every chance we can get.  Because you know, they never get rid of laws.  Every law they write basically gets stuck on the books forever, and they all infringe on our rights in some way.  I mean I think in some ways we have to . . . it’s sort of our duty to fight every law that gets put on the books.  Yeah.  It’s . . . it’s . . . it’s hard not to feel a little trapped by if people lying to . . .  It’s . . . it’s . . . it’s almost . . . it’s also like you don’t feel like necessarily they’re doing it in your . . . your self-interest.  They’re . . . No it’s . . .  Okay.  Your mother drives you crazy when she, you know, tells you to tuck your shirt in, but you know she’s doing it because she loves you.  When our government tells me to tuck my shirt in, I don’t know why they’re doing it.  You know I think they’re just doing it to be bossy.  So that’s how I feel.

Question: What is the world’s biggest challenge in the coming decade?

Transcript:     Our biggest challenge . . .  We have so many challenges.  It’s . . . it’s . . . it’s all the people.  It’s . . . it’s . . . it’s so many people with so many things they care so passionately about.  And it’s . . .  I think we have a lot . . .  People expect us to make a transition from a . . . a . . . a very . . . of a sort of patchwork quilt world where, you know, people in Asia, and people in North America, and people in Europe all have these very distinct cultures, and beliefs, and religions.  And . . . and now because of how immediate the world is, and we are all in contact with each other, we’re somehow supposed to make these very different machines function together – you know these very different pieces of clockwork go together.  They’re not going to fit.  And also . . .  You know and it’s not just the different cultures.  It’s the cultures of . . . of, you know, the Bible that I revere – sort of this ancient religion – and then a modern world where, you know, there are . . . we somehow expect to be able to fit very old, cranky ideas into . . . into new modern, sleek packaging . . . into . . . into progressive, egalitarian  molds.  And they’re not going to fit, you know?  And I think . . .  One of the things I could say with religion, you have to go, “Okay well that’s crappy, but that’s part of it,” you know.  But you know I don’t know why I can’t eat bacon.  You know that’s it, you know?  And then there   . . . there are I, I think, much more ludicrous things with any religion too.  But I think the . . . the biggest problem is we’re somehow expecting . . .  The progressives among us, you know, expect us to make this great leap into a . . . a space-age where, you know, everyone is tolerant and this and that, and this and that; but we’ve got so much – I would call it baggage – of our previous cultures with us.  But I would call it baggage, but I think a lot of it’s really good.  That’s not going to get on that spaceship with us.  You know that’s gonna keep the spaceship grounded.  I . . . I . . . I . . . I don’t know how we’re going to make it all fit.

Question: What should be the big issues of the 2008 presidential election?

Transcript:     The war seems like an obvious choice.  I . . . I . . . In this country, I . . . and actually in the world, I don’t see how there can be any other real issue until it’s resolved.  You know, until we’ve won, or until the war is over, that’s our only issue.  There are . . . how best to win; how best to, you know, not just for us but for the world, you know.  But what do we have to do?  That’s . . . because people are dying every day because of this.  I think there are . . .  Second to that I’d say education in . . . in   . . . in a way for a similar reason because . . .  And it’s not going . . .  That’s not gonna be the second most important thing, but . . . but every day people are kind of dying because of our school system too.  That’s one of the things that aggravates me is everybody always talks about and complains about the problems with our school system.  And you know we do this and that, but nothing ever changes.  And nothing changes into sort of . . .  Right now, kids are in crappy schools, and nothing is gonna, you know . . . that’s not gonna change.  And . . . and that’s . . .  That’s like, as crazy as it is, I actually . . . I feel like let’s just do school __________ . . .  Let’s do something for like a mother who wants to send her kid to a good Catholic school.  You know let’s just let her do it right now until something better comes along.  Just . . .  It’s just so frustrating to me to think of all the kids in the shitty schools right now.  Yeah.  But the war, that’s gotta be it. Hopefully . . . hopefully the war will be over by 2008, you know?  And we’ll be able to concentrate on other things.

Recorded on: 9/4/07